Tank Flow Suggestions

[discretekarma]

I want to explain my setup and the issues I'm having and hopefully get a solution. I have the 92 corner with a WavySea that is has water pumped through it from the sump through a Eheim 1262. I also have an Oceans Motion 4 way that goes in to 4 drilled holes in the back/lower section of the tank and there are two overflows for the closed loop system about 8-12" above the returns. There is 3/4" locline on the four returns. The oceans motions is fed by a Dart. Here's the problem. The drum in the oceans motion was stuck and making a clicking sound so I called Oceans Motion. The guy I spoke with walked me through opening it up and cleaning it out. He had me describe the drum (which is a version 1 with one oval hole) and read him the numbers on the motor. He asked when we bought it and I explained it was close to two years ago. When I read him the numbers he told me I bought it five years ago. I insisted this was incorrect but he would not believe that I was sold the 4 way two years ago and that it had been sitting on the shelf or wherever in this store for two to three years prior to me buying it. He told me to buy a new drum which I can't do right now. He explained the issue with the drum is that there is way more water coming in through the dart and into the OM4 than can pass through the one oval opening. So now what? Also, why is there this issue with the unit being five years old but only purchased less than two years ago. I'm not planning on saying where I bought it as I do not want this thread to be a knock on a LFS. I just want to know what the best solution would be for now. Run it with no drum or run it with the drum that I have until I can afford one with two holes?

 

Thanks

[Boret]

Maybe too much flow into the OM4??

What about installing a bypass like they recommend with the squirt?

 

[Boret]

Also.... by running with no drum you mean to connect the Dart directly into the four returns with a distributor right??? I don't think you can run the OM4 without a drum. The Dart is flow bias and not pressure bias so you can throttle the output to the desired GPH to allow smooth operation of the OM4.

[discretekarma]

When I say without the drum, I mean to put the black lid on the body with no drum or magnet inside and not even put the motor on. This is one option that the guy from Oceans Motion gave me. I'd rather not put a bypass on the plumbing to the oceans motion since I'd have to replumb it for that but can I just partially close the ball valve between the Dart and the Oceans Motion? Is that what you're saying regarding the Dart being flow bias and not pressure bias? I'm pretty frustrated that my dad and I bought a three year old OM4 and a Dart to go with it based on the store's recommendation.

[Boret]

You understood correctly. The Dart pump, being flow biased, allows you to throttle the amount of flow. As a matter of fact if you use a valve at the output and throttle it down a bit you will not only reduce the GPH but also the watts the motor consumes. It also means that the more restrictions a Dart encounters the less GPH.

 

A Tarpoon or one of the pressure bias pumps will increase the velocity of the water to keep the flow. So any reduction in the diameter of the pipe, or throttleling the output will increase the velocity of the water. You use a Dart to move a large volume of water at moderate to low velocity with a plumbing design that won't put a lot of head pressure. You use a Tarpoon or a pressure bias pump when you need to travel a long distance or you need to move water up several feet. For example if you have the sump in a basement and the display tank in a first floor.

 

As you can see, the Dart has a 2" intake and a 1.5" output. You want to avoid any restriction for the intake, straight 2" pipe from the sump into the pump, and then you can have a valve after the pump to control flow.

 

To answer your question, YES you can add a valve between the Dart and the OM4.

[Boret]

As per your last comment.... both the Dart and the OM4 are fantastic pieces of equipment, used extensibly in the reefing community with a great track record. You can check this thread http://www.oceansmotions.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10 for pictures with different examples on how to setup the OM4. I haven't looked in a while but I am sure you can find someone with a Dart and a OM4.

 

I think we should limit the discussion in the thread into possible solutions to you particular issue without getting into a rant about a vendor/LFS. I think you have done great so far not mentioning names but frustration seems to be making a dent on your resolve... be patient.

 

I have a Dart and love it! I have an OM4 and love it too. I got both used and they are probably older than yours

[Boret]

One more thing... a bypass is not an altogether crazy idea! For example, it allows you to feed other devices off the same pump. It allows you to divert the flow if you need to work on the returns without turning off the pump, it can even go into a frag tank later on and provide water movement without having to buy an extra powerhead. I wouldn't rush into the plumbing. You are better off redoing it now that you are setting everything up than later on when you have a tank filled with livestock.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Boret

[Brian Ward]

On my 120 I have a Dart directly fed by a Barracuda running wide open. I do have the drum with 2 openings though. Add a valve (double union valve, preferably a 2", but they do run about $20) between the Dart and the OM - you'll want it there anyway later for maintenance on the pump and the OM (remember b/c it's a closed loop, water will flow both ways when you go to service the components, you also want valves on all of the lines going to and from the tank for the same reason). Valve back the flow out of the Dart until the OM is working properly. Whenever you get around to getting a new drum, you can open up the valve and increase the flow in your tank.

[Boret]

Aren't you supposed to be able to move up to 7500 GPH through the OM4? The Dart will do a max of 2600 GPH and thats with no head pressure in 1.5" pipe. I don't undersand why you would need a different drum. I didn't see any reference in the website to specific flow numbers for different version of the drum....

[discretekarma]

I have a ball valve in the 2" pvc prior to the Dart, a 1.5" ball valve in the pvc between the Dart and OM4 and 4 x 1" ball valves on each of the 4 pvc pipes going from the OM4 to the tank. I put it all back together and reduced the ball valve between the Dart and OM4 to about half way and it was locked back up in about 1 revolution.

 

 

I was hoping that sanding and cleaning the drum as well as running the OM4 with no drum would have flushed anything out. What now?

Edited December 15, 2009 by discretekarma

[Brian Ward]

I have a ball valve in the 2" pvc prior to the Dart, a 1.5" ball valve in the pvc between the Dart and OM4 and 4 x 1" ball valves on each of the 4 pvc pipes going from the OM4 to the tank. I put it all back together and reduced the ball valve between the Dart and OM4 to about half way and it was locked back up in about 1 revolution.

 

 

I was hoping that sanding and cleaning the drum as well as running the OM4 with no drum would have flushed anything out. What now?

 

Remove the drum as the guy at OM said, close up the top and run it with the valve wide open. You won't get the multi-directional flow, but you will get a lot of constant flow from everywhere.

[Brian Ward]

Aren't you supposed to be able to move up to 7500 GPH through the OM4? The Dart will do a max of 2600 GPH and thats with no head pressure in 1.5" pipe. I don't undersand why you would need a different drum. I didn't see any reference in the website to specific flow numbers for different version of the drum....

 

I think that's what the discussion about the unit being 5 years old was about. Sounds like they updated the design to handle more flow and to make the older model work, you have to have 2 outlets.

[discretekarma]

For me, the biggest issue isn't that it's five years old, it isn't that I have to turn the flow down on the ball valve, it's that it locks up after one rotation. A $400 splitter seems like a waste to me.

[Boret]

For me, the biggest issue isn't that it's five years old, it isn't that I have to turn the flow down on the ball valve, it's that it locks up after one rotation. A $400 splitter seems like a waste to me.

 

He he he he... sorry discretekarma but the "$400 splitter" made me laugh.

Now seriously, have you contacted the original vendor yet to see if they can help you out? Maybe they even have a drum you can test. Has the unit been used before in the last 5 years? Or are we talking about a unit you thought was new but it is indeed 5 years old?

Can you turn it on while disconnected from the plumbing to see if you can see why its failing?

Something is out of whack on your unit, maybe it got hit while moving.... you already talk to OM so I imagine that they are the ones to know exactly what to do with it.

Good luck!

[discretekarma]

I will try your suggestion of contacting the vendor. This is the history. My dad bought it with me a little less than two years ago. We hooked it up to his 92 gallon corner (which I now have) and within a day he told me it was clicking. He said he called oceans motions and they said there may be sand in it. He really doesn't like to do things so he just unplugged the oceans motions and Dart. He continued to use the sump and WavySea. We bought it as a "new" item almost two years ago and and the item currently five years old. Three of those years we most likely spent on a shelf somewhere but that's just a guess. I hope that is clear.

[DaveS]

I've talked to Paul at OM on various issues and while a little on the ornery side, he knows his stuff and will eventually give you the information you ask. An OM4 will handle lots of flow but he'll be the first to say that the version 1 drum is the most problematic. Since it only has 1 opening of the 4, when it gets hit with lots of flow (like what a Dart will provide) it causes the drum to get pushed sideways in the unit. That causes the drum to stick.

 

I haven't read the other posts thoroughly so I may have missed something but since this is a closed loop, the bypass may not be a good idea unless it is connected directly back to the tank. If the bypass gets used to feed a frag tank or back to the sump, it is no longer a closed loop but an open loop. You'll risk getting lots of water somewhere undesired.

 

Here's one thing I can offer as a potential solution- I have a Type 2 drum that I don't think I'll be using when I get my hands on a Type 3 (hopefully soon). I may be willing to sell the 2, trade it or come up with some other arrangement that is a little less than buying a new drum from OM. LMK if you are interested and we can figure something out.