lanman November 23, 2009 Share November 23, 2009 In tank measurements are not consistent I believe due to the difficulty in sensor placement. However, it does show that little if any light is lost through water of this depth (One reading read more than when measured outside water). -Robert I'm not sure I 100% understand the chart. Were all of the 'through the water' readings taken with the 40/40 optics? Should we assume that with 60/60 optics, the readings would be near the same as 'in air' readings? I think 2' is a reasonable 'average' distance from my corals - so I should see about 350 umol at 2'? And how much 'tank' do you think one unit with 60/60 optics could cover? Can you, or someone, give a comparison with some T5's or MH lights? To cover my 240G tank with T5's cost me $1200 - plus $200/year in light bulbs, and occasionally a few more dollars in reflectors. I also use about 1KW of electricity to run it. I can see where this might be a very good deal in the long run. Now... does it grow corals??? bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankyf November 23, 2009 Share November 23, 2009 Now... does it grow corals??? bob Can't speak for this, but the Solaris does grow corals. I have The Solaris I-5 series. Par levels are great, SPS growth is great,the sunrise sunset/cloud cover features are awesome, the chiller barely ever runs anymore and I rarerly have to clean the sides of the tank. With all that being said, I will probably be switching back to MH/t5 soon. The colors I am getting from the corals is just not what everyone else is seing and nothing really "pops" like it will with MH/t5 combo. If I turn the whites way down and the blues up I can get a little pop, but my par level plummets. I also find that the light is very directional with little reflection which makes it very dark on the bottom sides of corals. Most of my larger,denser sps colonies have bleached out at the base where it is not receiving good light. I am also not going to be able to get good coverage on my new tank that is 24" wide, 18" seems to be the limit with my fixture. I wanted LEDS to work as much or more as anyone, but I would say that most people out there just won't be satisfied with the look of LED right now compared to t5's or mh/t5's. I hope there is something different about htis fixture that proves me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 November 24, 2009 Share November 24, 2009 From what I've seen of the Japanese Crazy Tanks that utilize MH spots, similar to the LED spots, is that they have tons of them and they are all over the place pointing in different directions. I think that your point is well taken that these light sources having such little coverage really would need to spill over the sides a lot more in order to support large corals. With the traditional bulbs and reflectors, you have light being thrown around a great deal, while on the other hand these are shining straight down and not getting reflected around the tank nearly as much. To make up for that, I think that these lights need to be angled as well so that they can reflect around the tank as much as they point down on the tank. Perhaps a light rail would work with these or even curving the heat sink or mount for the lights so that they arc over the tank instead of simply shining straight down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward November 24, 2009 Share November 24, 2009 (edited) So a parabolic, saddle-shaped heatsink to mount the LEDs to? That should be cheap ...... Seriously, though. Sounds like frag tanks are a better application than display tanks. Edited November 24, 2009 by Brian Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 November 24, 2009 Share November 24, 2009 Heat sinks are made of aluminum, aren't they? I wonder if you could simply heat one up and bend it around something. Because it's not designed to reflect but simply hold and absorb energy, I would think that it would work to bend it. Or, you could even take it and bend it progressively in between the fins or whatever they are called. I would think that if you heat it you could do this without damaging the heat sink itself and cracking the metal. I'm definitely not an expert, but I would think it could be done. Or, I wonder if you could mount them onto an old reflector like a lumenarc and instead of having the heat sink use the air ducting to blow air or suck air through it. Any old reflector should do the trick as long as you continue to cool the metal itself with some sort of fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman November 24, 2009 Share November 24, 2009 Heat sinks are made of aluminum, aren't they? I wonder if you could simply heat one up and bend it around something. Because it's not designed to reflect but simply hold and absorb energy, I would think that it would work to bend it. Or, you could even take it and bend it progressively in between the fins or whatever they are called. I would think that if you heat it you could do this without damaging the heat sink itself and cracking the metal. I'm definitely not an expert, but I would think it could be done. Or, I wonder if you could mount them onto an old reflector like a lumenarc and instead of having the heat sink use the air ducting to blow air or suck air through it. Any old reflector should do the trick as long as you continue to cool the metal itself with some sort of fan. I think that bending cast aluminum is near impossible. When it gets soft enough to bend, it puddles. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 November 24, 2009 Share November 24, 2009 I think that bending cast aluminum is near impossible. When it gets soft enough to bend, it puddles. bob I'll just bust out my superhero strength and bend it. Couldn't be harder to bend than an aluminum can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucelli November 24, 2009 Author Share November 24, 2009 Bob, the in-water readings are highlighted in aqua, and yes, they were taken with 40˚ optics for practical purposes. It illustrates minimal if any loss of PAR when penetrating up to 2 feet of water. Readings similar to out-of-water measurements can be expected using any of the available optics. davelin, you are right about spotlighting being used in Japanese reef tanks for a while now. The highly directional nature of this type of spotlighting is different than conventional lighting (MH, T5), which means corals which have been grown under conventional lighting will need to adapt. Smaller frags or colonies which have not taken on any specialized shape will grow to utilize more direct lighting. As with any lighting, many variables come to play when talking about shading, since BB tanks will naturally have more shade due to the lack of a reflective sand bottom. Multiple units can be mounted at different angles to ensure proper coverage. This current unit has this feature built into the design, as the three mounting points can be adjusted to provide light output at different angles. Building units which output light at a predetermined angle (ie. shaped aluminum) is not practical for anything but the most customized applications, since many times users will upgrade tanks, add additional lighting, make various other changes, etc.. I think trying to make LED lighting work like conventional MH or T5 lighting is totally missing the point. The highly directional nature of LED lighting opens up a whole new array of lighting techniques/methodologies.... Acquascaping especially can benefit from the vast flexibility. Perhaps we can finally begin to move away from the traditional fruit stand arrangements, and put light only where we need it. -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucelli November 25, 2009 Author Share November 25, 2009 found another link if anyone wants to attempt a DYI http://www.wheresmydrink.com/2009/05/led-s...C%20Jacks/Plugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boret November 25, 2009 Share November 25, 2009 Good link. This seems a great deal for the LEDs: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucelli November 25, 2009 Author Share November 25, 2009 Good link. This seems a great deal for the LEDs: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394 If you read the RC thread fully, there is a discussion on dealextreme. Bin numbers are important when purchasing LEDs. That is the only way to ensure the correct spectrum and brightness. -R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boret November 25, 2009 Share November 25, 2009 If you read the RC thread fully, there is a discussion on dealextreme. Bin numbers are important when purchasing LEDs. That is the only way to ensure the correct spectrum and brightness.-R What about the deal they have on the optics?? A pack of 5 for $3.94 and FREE shipping! LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boret November 25, 2009 Share November 25, 2009 (edited) This is the BIN on the dealextreme: 00XREWHT-L1-WG-Q5-0-01 Based on CREE specs that makes it the highest LM White (Q5 = 228LM at 1A) and White Chromaticity Region Bounding Coordinates (WG) within this range: _ x __ y .329 .369 .329 .345 .316 .332 .314 .355 I really don't understand the White Chromaticity Region Bounding Coordinates, but it "seems" the right one. At $5.36 with the Premium Star seems a good deal. Edited November 25, 2009 by Boret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Av8BlueWater November 26, 2009 Share November 26, 2009 Sweet build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucelli November 26, 2009 Author Share November 26, 2009 Thanks AV8. Boret, those prices for optics seem good to me. Make sure they are Cree optics, as I would think they work best with their LEDs. From what I understand, the blues were the questionable ones from dealextreme. Make sure what you are getting are the "Royal Blue" 450nm peak LEDs. These LEDs have been used successfully in the horticulture industry and provides the correct spectrum for photosynthesis. -R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucelli November 26, 2009 Author Share November 26, 2009 If anyone is questioning whether this array will grow SPS, or have any doubts about SPS color, here's a vid of "soundwave's" tank one year later under these LEDs. He's not even using optics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boret November 26, 2009 Share November 26, 2009 Thanks AV8.Boret, those prices for optics seem good to me. Make sure they are Cree optics, as I would think they work best with their LEDs. From what I understand, the blues were the questionable ones from dealextreme. Make sure what you are getting are the "Royal Blue" 450nm peak LEDs. These LEDs have been used successfully in the horticulture industry and provides the correct spectrum for photosynthesis. -R Thanks Robert! I am thinking about LED light for my frag tank. If it works I might have to do something similar for my main tank! After reading the while RC thread, and after some searches I found a couple of interesting things: 1. We are all breaking IP laws by making these because the $%$/& at Orbital have a Patent on LED lights over an aquarium even though they are not building anything. I hope the judge will make the right call and throw their claim out of the window. We will have to see the result of Orbital vs. PFO. This is PFOs Patent application: PFO and this is Orbital's actual registered patent. 2. Besides Ducati's and Ferrari's, the Italians have a thing or two to say on Aquarium design. Look at this beautiful LED fixture: You can see their whole catalog in English HERE. 3. It seems that heat is more of an issue on the White LEDs than the Blues. As a matter of fact you only lose 5% on the blues when they get in the really hot range (120 degrees) versus the 20% to 30% you lose on the whites at those temperatures. This might influence the actual design of the DIY fixture. You will need more passive heat dissipation on the whites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucelli November 27, 2009 Author Share November 27, 2009 Boret, There are no patent laws being broken, as the patent only applies to LEDs being commercialized very specific applications. There are no laws against providing a service or building your own. -R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boret November 27, 2009 Share November 27, 2009 Boret,There are no patent laws being broken, as the patent only applies to LEDs being commercialized very specific applications. There are no laws against providing a service or building your own. -R that's what I thought... Read this http://glassbox-design.com/2009/patents-10...s-diy-infringe/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucelli December 1, 2009 Author Share December 1, 2009 (edited) I don't want to clog this thread up with patent talk. Their patent claim is based on "their idea" of using a light source they did not invent for the specific purpose of growing marine life. The only thing they did was make an enclosure and controller for LEDS and did not "invent" anything new. If anyone wants to read more about this, the following links are for your reading pleasure. Orbitec vs. PFO lawsuit: http://www.reefbuilders.com/wp-content/upl.../p-o08-220p.pdf Orbitec's patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=mwWAAAAAE...ne+aquarium+LED Topics relating to Orbitec can be discussed in a separate thread if so desired In other news... Array12 coming soon! (designed for sunbathing your cat or dog, but works well on your reef aquarium also) Just noticed you had already posted the links Boret Edited December 1, 2009 by chucelli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boret December 5, 2009 Share December 5, 2009 I am with you on this Chucelli, I just thought that everyone should be aware of what's going on in that front. Will not stop me from building anything, just kind of like full disclosure type of deal. You are right, let's keep the thread focused on building LED fixtures. What do you think of these guys? RapidLED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucelli December 7, 2009 Author Share December 7, 2009 they look good to me.... I like how they have various kit packages for all sorts of DIYs. Shipping should be faster as well since they are based in the US. -R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integral9 December 7, 2009 Share December 7, 2009 LEDs are great. But something that I've noticed more of recently is people putting lenses on top of them. I find it curious as most LEDs come with reflectors built into them to focus their light in one direction. I've seen anywhere from 10-160 deg. So one should be able to achieve the desired light dispersion angles with out putting a lense on the LED. Aside from protecting the LED from the salt air environment do the lenses have any real purpose? btw. A dimmer switch for a 12V circuit should be all that's necessary to add a dimmer to the circuit. Boat/US might have something useful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucelli December 7, 2009 Author Share December 7, 2009 (edited) LEDs are great. But something that I've noticed more of recently is people putting lenses on top of them. I find it curious as most LEDs come with reflectors built into them to focus their light in one direction. I've seen anywhere from 10-160 deg. So one should be able to achieve the desired light dispersion angles with out putting a lense on the LED. Aside from protecting the LED from the salt air environment do the lenses have any real purpose? btw. A dimmer switch for a 12V circuit should be all that's necessary to add a dimmer to the circuit. Boat/US might have something useful... LEDs do not have reflectors built into them. Most have some sort of lens to protect the actual chip and roughly focus the light output to around 120˚. Optics concentrate the light by incorporating reflectors behind lenses. This data sheet shows the difference 60˚ optics makes on light output of these LEDs: www.cree.com/Products/pdf/XLampXR-ESecondaryOptics.pdf Also if you see my PAR readings table, you will see that optics serve a very real purpose. As for dimming LEDs, it is not as simple as attaching a 12v circut dimmer switch. These power supplies operate anywhere from 24v to 48v DC for starters... Also, LEDs require constant current in order to run properly. I suggest reading the very comprehensive RC thread for more information. -R Edited December 7, 2009 by chucelli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integral9 December 7, 2009 Share December 7, 2009 (edited) It's not a traditional reflector (parabolic mirror) but the plastic they are built in is a lense that reflects the light outwards to a predetermined viewing angle. So one could argue that as a reflector, but I see your point about dispersing the light evenly. The secondary lenses make more sense now. But I think it's a shame that you have to loose a small percentage of your light (absorbed by the material the lens is made of) to redistribute it evenly, even for a net gain. I guess LEDs just aren't made to produce evenly distributed light. I suppose it depends on the kind of dimmer you use, but all the DC dimmer switches I've seen (except for the digital ones) are basically potentiometers with fancy knobs on them. Potentiometers won't interrupt current, unless they have an off position. They are also relatively cheap. Their only downside is that they can get hot as the current you run through them goes up. Edited December 7, 2009 by Integral9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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