sen5241b March 18, 2009 Share March 18, 2009 article DSBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami March 18, 2009 Share March 18, 2009 Duplicated topic http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=28772 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mich March 18, 2009 Share March 18, 2009 article DSBs From my experience and from what I've read It seem's like 4" is the magic depth for denitration. It's not so deep or packed down that any area becomes more than "anoxic". Truly anaerobic bacteria can have tendencies to change post glycolysis pyruvates into things like lactic acid, ethanes, methanes, and ocaisionaly some types of concentrated sulfur compounds, and still continue to release nitrogenous waste in the more conventional and undesirable forms (your article mentions "ammonium") which just re-enters higher stages of the nitrogen cycle, ultimately ending up as nitrate again. I've seen a few threads where people have done ultra DSBs with no stirrage and really fine sand, where black spots have formed and the anerobes inside produced compounds that poisoned the entire tank. This is a worst case scenario, in which there was probably some metallic or sulfuric component of the sand, but it has happened. My favorite and most succesful method of denitration has always been to grow macro algae. From what I've seen DSBs by themselves generally don't keep up with the rate of production in a highly stocked system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basser9 March 18, 2009 Share March 18, 2009 funny how all the anti dsb people can come up with theories that dont match the real experiences of all of us dsbers.....the deeper the better.....you might want to add sulfur .....there is almost none in salt mixes.....never had a nitrate level above 2....15years....6 tanks .....1/2 water changes a year.....bare bottom pure berlin reefs suffer most of the time from old tank syndrome after 2 to 4 years all you have to do is look around both clubs to see that bare bottom tanks suffer from nitrate problems for the most part.....there are a half dozen great authors in this hobby calfo as an example who have gone to great lengths to dispel the notion that very deep beds are bad.....my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mich March 18, 2009 Share March 18, 2009 funny how all the anti dsb people can come up with theories that dont match the real experiences of all of us dsbers.....the deeper the better.....you might want to add sulfur .....there is almost none in salt mixes.....never had a nitrate level above 2....15years....6 tanks .....1/2 water changes a year.....bare bottom pure berlin reefs suffer most of the time from old tank syndrome after 2 to 4 years all you have to do is look around both clubs to see that bare bottom tanks suffer from nitrate problems for the most part.....there are a half dozen great authors in this hobby calfo as an example who have gone to great lengths to dispel the notion that very deep beds are bad.....my 2 cents. I agree with you, there are pros and cons surrounding every system, but there have been times when DSBs go wrong. My theory is that it usually has to do with sand that's too fine, or an absense of of macro organisms and no convection in the deeper recesses of the sand bed, or the proliferation of some rogue anaerobe which produces toxic materials. I personally have a phobia of going deeper than six inches, I think four is perfect (although not sufficient for total nitration). That being said, if I were going to go super deep I'd probabbly start with with a slightly coarser dry dead sand and seed it with sand from a biologically active DSB that has already withstood the test of time. That being said, if you already have a ten inch bed and have been problem free for the past five years, I don't see any reason to change things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen5241b March 18, 2009 Author Share March 18, 2009 Why risk a DSB that could go bad when you can get to zero nitrates without one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr March 18, 2009 Share March 18, 2009 Ive always used about 4" of an Ultra Fine crushed coral, aragonite packs up after time IME. Ive found a brand a sand that has great diffusion so there are no truly anaerobic areas. in my coral trays I can put an entire bar of cyclopeeze in for one feeding and absolutely no fluctuations in ammonia,nitrite, or nitrate....not a regular practice but its happened on accident before. On the other hand, ive never had luck with coarse substrates, shallow sand beds, or BB....maybe I suck. .02 Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mich March 18, 2009 Share March 18, 2009 Why risk a DSB that could go bad when you can get to zero nitrates without one? That's pretty much the way I feel. I'm most partial to Algal Turf filtration, but then you have to worry about the depletion of everything else in addition to just your nitrogenous wastes. Things like Iodine and magnesium become more critical to monitor and maintain. Rock alone doesn't seem effective at removing nitrate quickly enough, especially in systems with alot of fish and having to do regular partial water changes is a huge PITA. Skimming and boosting flow slows things down but ultimately without DSB or ATS the nitrate will rise. Basically I think that every popular method works if done well. It's more a matter prefferance and which maintenance practices seem most practical to the particular aquarist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k March 18, 2009 Share March 18, 2009 Quick! Don't let it pass you by! That's right- it's the bandwagon. Don't let quick opinions and coincidental experiences convince you that DSB's are bad. They work fine for most that employ them. As with anything in this hobby, they need maintenance every now and then to function efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Pollman March 18, 2009 Share March 18, 2009 DSBs do not need to be an all-or-nothing issue. Make a remote DSB. I am planning my new sump to have a large DSB which can be taken off-line and replaced every so often. I should add that I had a DSB in my last tank - 6 inches deep. Even after 5 years it was never a problem. But one day I scooped out some sand with my hand, and boy, did it sink! I can not imagine what my fish and corals must of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k March 19, 2009 Share March 19, 2009 DSBs do not need to be an all-or-nothing issue. Make a remote DSB. I am planning my new sump to have a large DSB which can be taken off-line and replaced every so often. I should add that I had a DSB in my last tank - 6 inches deep. Even after 5 years it was never a problem. But one day I scooped out some sand with my hand, and boy, did it sink! I can not imagine what my fish and corals must of thought. Maybe they thought that you had stinky hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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