GBTA Fugitive - ISO Advice

[Mich]

So, I have a new tank setup and I'm in the later stages of algal succesion, just starting to get flecks of pink on my pvc and glass. So I decide to start spending money and figure I'll start off with an green bubble tip anemone. I know from experience these bastidges have a tendency to wander, so my plan is to make it the first addition, then once it finds a comfortable final spot I'll start adding other stuff. Little did I anticipate what an exceptional jerk this guy was going to be.

 

My tank is an Oceanic Ultimae 156 gallon RR. Here's what the overflow boxes look like;

 

 

It squoze it's entire 3" frame into one of the little 1/8" slits in the bottom inlet and has wedged it's self securely inside the half inch space between the inlets and the inner box. Anyone have any suggestions on how to get it out? Coat hanger? or should I just wait and see if it'll work it's way to the top? God forbid it makes it out while I'm at work and ends up clogging the hose to my sump. But, I really don't want to have to mutilate the little fella in some elaborate extraction procedure. I know there has to be someone on here who's had this exact same thing happen...

[Sugar Magnolia]

Wow. I'm really surprised it did that. I Would just wait it out and see if it moves out. Trying to pry it out of there could severely damage it. Good luck!

[rocko918]

nothing you can do at this point. You just have to wait, It did not like something about the main tank.

 

tell us about the tank. How old is it? Lights and water parms?

[Mich]

nothing you can do at this point. You just have to wait, It did not like something about the main tank.

 

tell us about the tank. How old is it? Lights and water parms?

 

The tank has been running for just about a month exactly, I'm past the diatom and hair bloom. Noticed coraline on the glass for the first time last Tuesday.

 

Conditions are as follows;

Temp = 78 ~80

sg = 1.025 ~1.026

ph = 8.2

alk = 9ish

Ca = 480

NH3/4 = 0

NO2 = 0

N03 = undetectable

PO4 = undetectbale

SiO = undetectable

Mg = 1400

 

I've done BTAs in the past and it seems like they always wander around for the first couple days before they stay put. The LFS had it under two 40watt compact 50/50s and I've got it under 216 watts of mixed T5s. I'm also fairly sure their salinity was lower and their nitrate was higher than my system, so obviously it's going to take some time for it to adjust. Why it wants adjust inside a half inch plastic gap is beyond me though.

[rocko918]

it might have been trying to get away from all the light, it was not use to that much.

[Mich]

it might have been trying to get away from all the light, it was not use to that much.

 

That's probably exactly what it was. I just feel it would have been more convenient to me if it chose a gap in the rock work to hide in, as opposed to the gap in the bulkhead. I'm worried that if I can't get it out it won't be able to get itself out, or worse it will get out and then squeeze itself into the standpipe. I don't think I would be stressing out about this so much if It wasn't for the fact that I'm at work all day and have no idea what it's currently up to. As of 5am this morning it had worked it's way up to the middle inlets, I can see it through the slits. Do you think it will come out via the inlet slits, the same way it came in or do you think it'll keep going till it gets to the top. What if it doesn't make it out at all? How long do you think it can survive in there?

[varora]

since it responding too much light you can try and move it by lighting up the bulkhead when you get home, who knows where we will go, can you put a small rock in there maybe it will cling to that and you can grab the whole thing, i dunno, just throwing out ideas

[DDiver]

Didn't see any mentions of flow..too much or too little can play a big part in where it settles..

[Mich]

since it responding too much light you can try and move it by lighting up the bulkhead when you get home, who knows where we will go, can you put a small rock in there maybe it will cling to that and you can grab the whole thing, i dunno, just throwing out ideas

 

There's not really enough space to put anything in there other than a coat hanger or mabe a thin peice of wood, the anemone itself is fairly good sized and really smooshed around inside the bulkhead wall. As of 10:00 PM tonight it still hasn't moved , I took a couple pictures though;

 

 

 

I can try putting and leaving an LED flash light over the edge, but I don't know if that will be bright enough to aggrevate it out.

 

Didn't see any mentions of flow..too much or too little can play a big part in where it settles..

 

flow is 4282 GPH (Eheim 1262 top return @ 898 GPH + Mag Drive MD9.5 @ 950 GPH + 2 Hydor Koralia 4s 2 (1200 GPH))

[varora]

well the light idea sounds like it wont work, do you have some powerheads so you can increase the flow in your display and then in addition reduce the flow through your bulkhead temporarily, maybe you can get him to go back in the display if the bulkhead is not flowing to his desire, our anemone moved around for a few days and then he stayed in one spot for over a year

Edited March 17, 2009 by varora

[Mich]

well the light idea sounds like it wont work, do you have some powerheads so you can increase the flow in your display and then in addition reduce the flow through your bulkhead temporarily, maybe you can get him to go back in the display if the bulkhead is not flowing to his desire.

 

That just might do the trick. I could unplug both return pumps and just let the hydors run. Hopefully that won't kill it. Not only will it be without flow, but it won't be getting any of the leftover food that's always getting sucked through there.

 

 

Our anemone moved around for a few days and then he stayed in one spot for over a year

 

That's always been my experience in the past as well. However I've never had one go through such a tiny openening before and now it's been lodged there for over 24 hours. I'm going to give it another day or two to come out and then I'll try pulling the pumps.

[varora]

keep us updated

[Integral9]

I was able to move my RBTA by blocking all the direct light it got by placing a board over the tank where it was. It moved back to the front of the tank (where there still was light) w/in a week.

 

Good Luck.

[Mich]

I was able to move my RBTA by blocking all the direct light it got by placing a board over the tank where it was. It moved back to the front of the tank (where there still was light) w/in a week.

 

Good Luck.

 

Thanks, that might be the way to go. Placing a board over the top could also make it more compelled to exit the same way it entered (via the inlets), thus avoiding the standpipe. I migth try this first befor I cut off both returns and leave my sump completely isolated.

 

keep us updated

 

Will do.

[Mich]

keep us updated

 

Just an FYI, the BTA ended up completely disintegrating and being absorbed by my system. However, the tank has a very light load and the only negative impact was a small temporary nitrate spike and a bit of a hair algae bloom on the left side of the sandbed, which was completely consumed by cerith snails over the course of the subsequent week. It's still a bummer to have had this happen in my system though, since it's extremely likely that this specimen was wild caught and for all I know it might have been alive during the Balkan Wars.

 

So anyway, it was my plan to eventually get a pair of maroon clowns to host in it, which I ended up getting anyway without the anemone. Eventually I got so bored of watching them fight each other over nothing, that I decided I would give them something to fight about, and got another E. quad. Luckily, this one has not been so self destructive and so far is doing pretty well. Here's a video I took;

 

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...ideoid=55861430

 

Also, for those of you with a Michael Vick fetish here are a couple of pics of my Maroons duking it out;

 

[Coral Hind]

How big are they?

[Mich]

How big are they?

 

Juvenile size, less than two inches. They exist peacfully most of the time with the slightly larger specimen being dominant. However, I've had two major incidents of relapsing beligerence since their initial introduction. Once when when I upgraded the light fixture, and again with the introduction of this new BTA. Anemone boy seems to be eating more, so hopefully their disparity in size will only increase overtime. I think they might almost be large enough to be male.

[Coral Hind]

They may not be juveniles. Once they reach about 1" they gain/change sex. I think it is wise to understand the maturing, pairing process and submissive behaviors of clowns because if you have two females they will always fight. Below is probably more information then what most need but here it is anyways.

 

Sex changes

1. Clownfish are protandrous hermaphrodites. They are hatched as sexually immature fish. Based on signals from their environment and being physically mature after 12-24 months they will either remain sexually immature, change into a male or change into a male then female. This is a one way trip, sexless to male never to be sexless again and male to female never to be male again.

 

2. A clownfish kept by its self will become a female in a short period of time if it is physically mature, in as little as a month.

 

3. Two female clowns will fight. The tell tale sign that you have two females is fighting ending in the two locking their mouths together. We are not talking about the normal love bites and taps here.

 

 

Pairing techniques

There are a couple of proven techniques to pair same species of clownfish.

 

1. Grow out technique:

With this technique two small juvenile clownfish are purchased at the same time and introduced into the tank at the same time. The fish will establish a dominate submissive relationship as they mature and eventually form a pair bond. This technique works the vast majority of the time.

 

Notes: Since the fish are going to fight and/or chase each other to establish who is the dominate fish and who is the submissive fish, it will often speed the pairing process and reduce fighting and potential damage to the fish by getting one of the two juveniles larger than the other. The smaller will quickly give up to the larger one. This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish as they are aggressive and will still fight.

 

2. Add a new clownfish to an existing clownfish technique:

With having an existing clownfish in your tank adding a new clownfish to form a pair can be a little harder or in other words more dangerous to the new fish. The technique is basically the same as the grow out technique. You will want to find a small juvenile clownfish and add it to the tank with the existing tank. By getting a small juvenile fish you are not risking possible sex compatibility problems, e.g. two females.

 

Example: Existing A. Ocellaris clownfish that has been in the tank by it's self for over a year. We can assume this fish is a female based on size, age and environment. A 3/4" to 1-1/2" juvenile from a community tank is added to the tank. The vast majority of the time the new fish will submit to the existing fish with little or no fighting at all. This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish as they are aggressive and will still fight.

 

3. Pairing Premnas species clownfish (maroon clownfish):

Pairing maroon clowns is much more problematic than pairing Amphiprion species clownfish. Maroons are notorious for being very aggressive towards other clownfish. They are pretty much fearless and will only back down from an all out fight when presented with the overwhelming threat of death.

 

Separation Technique:

The only technique I am aware of that works the vast majority of the time with the least amount of damage as possible is to use a separation and slow acclimation process to introduce a potential mate to a maroon clownfish.

 

First you need to have a large female already established in your tank before trying a pairing. The clownfish should be at least 3" from nose to start of the cardinal fin. Next you will need to do a little preparation before buying a potential mate for your maroon. You need something to securely separate the two fish in the same tank while still allowing the fish to see each other and the new fish to get water flow. You can use a clear plastic specimen container with holes drilled in it for example.

 

Now go to the LFS and find the smallest juvenile maroon from a community tank that you can find. It should be no larger than 1" from nose to start of cardinal fin. Acclimate the new maroon just as you would any other fish. Once the new maroon is acclimated to your tanks water, place the new maroon in the specimen container. Let the two fish see each other, place the specimen container near the females territory. Carefully watch the female's behavior. If she is trying to attack the new fish through the container, it is not safe to release the new maroon. Give her time to cool off from the disruption to her tank and addition of a foreign clownfish in her tank.

 

Now that the female has cooled her temper it is time to try an introduction. Get your favorite fish net ready and release the new maroon to the tank. If the fighting gets too bad you will need to rescue the new maroon and place it back in the container and try the next day. If after three failed attempts you can write off the new maroon as incompatible and you will need a new juvenile to try with.

 

 

Understanding submissive behavior in clownfish:

As a part of pairing you need to know what submissive behavior is. You will know that you are well on your way to a successful pairing when one fish submits to the other fish. This is especially important behavior to observe in maroon clownfish.

 

Amphiprion and Premnas species submissive behavior goes something like this. First the dominate fish will rush or otherwise attack the submissive fish. The submissive fish will turn sideways to the dominate fish and tilt its belly towards the dominate fish and quiver like an epileptic seizure. The female should recognize this behavior and stop the attack short of actual damage. Sometimes in new pairings and old well established pair bonds the dominate fish will move to a parallel position to the submissive and quiver back to the submissive fish.

 

In Maroon clowns there is an additional submissive behavior that is unique to maroons. When the submissive fish is rushed or otherwise attacked it/he will duck the attack, slip to the side of the female and tenderly kiss her cheek spines and pectoral fins of his beloved female.

 

Signs that you have a pair bond in your clownfish:

There are a couple of signs that a pair bond has formed and is maturing in your clownfish in addition to submissive behavior. Typically mated pairs (pairs that have a pair bond) will sleep in the same area. They will also host in the same host or stay in the same territory if there is no natural host present. The two fish will stay close to each other the vast majority of the time.

 

The pair bond is a developing thing. It starts out as a general acceptance of each other. Then slowly develops into a closer relationship were both fish are together most of the time. There is a bickering phase too where the female will make sure the male knows who is the boss. During this time it is not uncommon to find the poor little dejected male cowering near their normal host/territory. But don't worry this is normal and the male will be accepted back sooner or later. The ultimate end of the pair bond is seen in a spawning event such as nest cleaning or laying of eggs.

 

Some information taken from "Clownfishes" by Joyce Wilkerson. This is a great little book if you are thinking of raising clownfish.

 

David

[Mich]

Thanks for the info. I guess my method is probably closest to "The Grow Out Technique". Despite popular opinion, I don't like seperating Maroons, if you give them enough space to fight it out they usually won't kill each other. There is some stress and tattered fins but ultimately one will do the 'shakey shakey dance'. Mine are still on the cusp of being ready to be males, as of now they are not ready to pair but there is clear submission from the smaller specimen.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Good information there David.

 

Micheal, sorry to hear about the anem. The new one looks really healthy.

Edited April 16, 2009 by Sugar Magnolia

[Mich]

Good information there David.

 

Micheal, sorry to hear about the anem. The new one looks really healthy.

 

Thanks for the condolences. Yeah, the new one doesn't look too bad, I'm just glad the clowns are paying attention to it.