livestock dynamics, types of fish

[treesprite]

Sorry I keep asking these fish questions but I don't want to make a mistake and then either find something dead or not be able to catch something. I'm starting to get frustrated. It seems like practically all the fish I see that might be appropriate in other ways, are listed as "peaceful".

 

What kinds of fish that are considered peaceful do people have in a similar tank dynamic as mine, if there is anyone whith a similar tank livestock situation? I don't know how else to get viable suggestions. Description below:

 

I have a 65g tank. There is a female tomato clown of 5-6". She would be the most likely suspect if a fish were to be killed, but I have only seen her go at fish she doesn't like if they get in her territory - I have never seen her dash through open water at another fish. The next likely suspect would be a cherub angel which thinks the whole tank is her playground, but she is a small fish. The fridmani dottyback is not an aggressive fish, it's the only kind of dottyback that isn't aggressive, and while supposedly they are territorial, this one hides most of the time and doesn't even hint at territoriality although the angel pretty much won't let it have it's own territory other than in the frogspawn.

 

I gave up the idea of a small school because the fish all are considered peaceful fish. Are there people with big clowns who have cardinal or chromis schools? I thought about getting a single bangai cardinal but again peaceful. Firefish, gobies all peaceful, other angels probably wont work, other clowns won't work, I thought about a wrasse but it sounds from others like they will be too rough. Most damsels get too aggressive, except yellowtails, but that is a last resort.

 

Looking for answers that come out of experience, not just from reading as I myself have done so much reading that the top of my head is about to pop off.

 

Thanks. I will try to make this my last thread on this type of question for this particular round of adding fish. I may end up keeping it current until I find something.

Edited September 27, 2008 by treesprite

[zygote2k]

I had a mated pair of Tomato Clowns in my old 90. They hosted in a large Enatamacea Quadricolor and by far they were the most aggressive fish in the tank. Some of the other inhabitants were various damsels and an 8" Niger Trigger. Tomato clowns are notorious for being bullies. Your 5" Tomato is more than likely the culprit.

[treesprite]

Should say "would" be the culprit if something dies. It's going to be a while before I can get a larger tank. It's times like these that I feel like giving up this pair, but I'm very attatched and would be very upset if they went to a new home and something happened to them.

[treesprite]

Now I keep thinking maybe I should find someone with a much larger tank for this pair. When I went from the 45 to the 65 the female seemed much happier, but maybe she has outgrown this one too (no bigger, just wanting more room).

 

In all seriousness, what size tank should a pair with a clown this large really have? I feel like she needs at least 90g, with enough space that she doesn't have to be "on guard" all of the time.

[dschflier]

I have a pair of tomato clowns in my 90 gallon, a pair of sabee clowns(sp) in my 210. I also have a pair of percula clowns in my sump. From my experience Most clowns other then the percs will get aggresive and especially so when they are paired up. I am sure out of the hundreds of types of clown fish there are others that dont get very aggresive as well but tomato clowns definitly will become very aggresive.

 

I dont think a 90 gallon tank would be that helpfull with a pair of tomatos unless your plan was to keep triggers angels and some other tough fish. I would suggest if you want to keep the pair to settle on stronger fish. If you want a pair of clowns but not necessarily a tomato pair I would first get whatever fish you want and then get two young perculas. They should pair up in time and wont get that aggresive. This will also help if they are added last.

[zygote2k]

The other thing to think about is this: You have a 6" fish in a 65 gallon tank- It's getting almost too big to live comfortably and almost certainly will get more aggressive as time goes by. If you really like tomato clowns, why don't you trade them in for a juvenile pair which will be a whole lot more peaceful.

Don't worry about what might happen to them if you trade them in- they are some of the hardiest fish around.

[davelin315]

Your female is 5-6"? That's one of the biggest tomato clowns I've ever heard of. My female tomato clowns were never more than 3-4", tops maybe almost 5". I would say that no matter what you put in there you'll be lucky if it even makes it past the top 3" of water. A clown that length has got to be the size of my open hand and with their aggressive nature, I don't even think I'd put my hand in the tank as it could literally fit one of my fingers in its mouth. Are you sure it's that big?

[treesprite]

Wreck has a really large clown also. They can supposedly get up to 6" in the wild but not so often in captivity. Mine never attacked me until several days ago after I re-arranged the liverock.

These are bad pics - no decent camera:

Next to the male - there are almost right next to each other - she is probably about 3x his size...

Next to the tang (white spot on clown just bad pic) ...

After I re=arranged my liverock that flat-ish rock in front of her was kind of an extra one so I propped on a couple other peices of extras to make a tunnel and it seemed pretty secure to me - she rammed head first into it and knocked it down because I guess it was in the way of where she had started clearing out empty shells and such to make herself a new house.

 

Edit:

Her mouth is so big that when I just now put in snails from Guy, she nabbed a nassarius falling and sucked it in completely thinking it was food, not once but 3 times, spitting it out and snatching back up before it fell to the bottom, until finally she decided it wasn't edible. I guess I could say that she could fit the top of my pinky finger in her mouth.

Edited September 28, 2008 by treesprite

[treesprite]

If I decide to trade my clowns, would these fish go together? I would most likely also trade the angel because she is a bit aggressive herself.

 

This is what I would have:

- 1 Fridmani pseudochromis (orchid dottyback) (note - this is not an aggressive type)

- 2 firefish moved from nano

- 1 yellow clown goby moved from nano (he might be too small)

 

This is what I would think of adding but would gauge load carefully.... all fish are 2" to 3.5" in a 65g:

- 2 percula clowns

- 5 threadfin cardinals

- 2 or 3 pajama cardinals (kinda ugly but in context might look cool)

- 2 blue-striped neon goby (in 65g 2 should be ok?)

- 2 blackbar chromis or other little yellow fish

 

If I do not trade my clowns, I will have to resort to a couple yellowtail damsels.

[treesprite]

Would it be a really terrible thing to split the pair up and just get rid of the female? Would it make them unhappy to not have mates, or would there be a possibility of the male accepting a smaller clown and then himself turning female?

[Jon Lazar]

This will work if you replace the female with a juvenile clown. The male will turn female, and the juvenile will turn male.

 

 

Would it be a really terrible thing to split the pair up and just get rid of the female? Would it make them unhappy to not have mates, or would there be a possibility of the male accepting a smaller clown and then himself turning female?

[treesprite]

This will work if you replace the female with a juvenile clown. The male will turn female, and the juvenile will turn male.

Have you ever tried it? I know there are a couple other people who did it and it worked.

 

The female is now all by herself in the 38 that I've just been using to mix water. I put all the liverock from the refugium and nano in the tank with her, so she's not in a bare tank.

 

The 2 firefish and the clown goby are in the 65. The m. clown, angel, and dottyback are ignoring them. The firefish pair look really cool swimming together out in such wide open water in top half of tank - I thought they might hang in the rockwork. The goby is so small that the old fish probably don't realize it's even there.

 

I need some kind of screen over my overflow now.

 

Now I will have an All Small Fish tank.

Already have:

- 1 m. tomato clown

- 1 cherub angel

- 1 fridmani pseudochromis

- 2 firefish

- 1 tiny yellow clown goby

Need to get:

- 5-member school threadfin or pajama cardinal

- 2 blue-stripe neon gobies

- 2 blackbar chromis or other little yellow fish (any other ideas for yellow?)

 

I am expecting that having all little fish will help a lot with maintanence.

Edited September 30, 2008 by treesprite