Why does my PH suddenly drop?

[Highland Reefer]

I've been playing around with my water parameters for a while now. I have noticed that when I let my KH drop below 12, the PH will suddenly drop from 8.0 down to 7.4

 

There is no in-betweens. At first I would add 2 tsps of PH8.3 and the KH would rise to 15. This time, I only added 1 tsp of PH8.3 and the PH went up to 7.6 the next day. I waited another day this time without adding anything and now it is back up to 8.0 & the KH is at 13. So I think I have finally figured the routine out. It is a little disconcerting that the PH drops from 8.0 to 7.4 at the high 11's KH. I am using a recently, properly calibrated PH Meter, Salifert Test Kits and a recently, properly calibrated refractometer. I have compared the Salifert test kits to the AP test kits and they compare. I have compared my temp. controller to a thermometer with identical results. I have compared the PH meter to the Salifert test kit with comparable results. Sometimes reefing will drive you crazy!

 

My water parameters:

Temp: 81 (80-82)

PH: 8.0 (7.4 - 8.1) (Usually it is 8.0 - 8.1) Should be 8.2 - 8.4

KH: 12 (12 - 14) Should be 8 - 11

Cal: 400 (380 - 430)

Mg: 1280 (1250 - 1300)

Sal: 1.026 (1.026 - 1.027)

Nitrate: 15 (15 - 25) (I know this is not good. I am working on this)

Nitrite: 0

ammonia: 0

Phos: 0

 

I am using 2 tsp. Kalk /100 ml of vinegar/1 gal rodi water in my topoff. It seems, that I only need to add 1 tsp. PH8.3 about once every 2-3 weeks to maintain my water parameters. The tricky problem is: When do I add that 1 tsp. of PH8.3 to prevent the sudden drop in PH. I am currently doing 15% weekly water changes to help keep the nitrates in line.

Edited April 12, 2008 by Highland Reefer

[gastone]

Too much CO2??? Can you vent your skimmer intake to the outside air?

 

Why the vinegar in the top off? You aren't "super"saturating you limewater at the rate of 2 tsp./g anyway. That's A LOT of vinegar for 1g of water. Not only will it lower the ph slightly just by adding to the tank, but as the result of the bacteria consuming the oxygen, there will be a second "wave" of ph drop.

 

RHF recommends a starting point of 3 tsp kalk and 45 ml vinegar.

 

FWIW I'm still not a proponent of vinegar to be used in this fashion (though I believe it does have other uses). IMO if you want to increase the amount of kalk going into your system, add an fan or two and increase evaporation.

 

JMO.

 

Garrett.

[Highland Reefer]

How large of an air line do you have to run where you need about 15' to the outside wall?

 

Point taken on the vinegar. I like the way the kalk disolves in the vinegar without any sediment. I tried it without the vinegar and I would get sediment forming on the bottom of the bucket, which I thought was not good. I can cut back on the vinegar or stop using it completely, whichever you think would be best. 2 tsps of kalk/gallon seems to work fine. I had read that the vinegar helps to keep the nitrates down. When I started my nitrates were at 80 ppm and then started the vinegar and they dropped to 15-25. There could have been other reasons for the drop also.

[gastone]

Cliff, more than one way to skin a cat (though I support any cat skinning that may go on), but this is where my limited knowledge/experience has gotten me...

 

Venting the venturi to the outside isn't always an option as the skimmer might be too far away. At this time of year an open would should suffice just as well though. If you can route it, just match the current intake line diameter. It's a cost efficient means to attempt to solve the problem.

 

The sediment that forms doesn't bother me. I like the fact that it's crud, I can see it, and it ain't going into my tank. If the vinegar totally disolves everything in the kalk powder, then that sediment you used to see is making its way into your tank.

 

The relationship with vinegar and the nitrogen cycle is what I referred to in my first post. Good stuff there. Having nitrates at 15ppm isn't horrible IMO. I think there are other methods to reduce NO3 though, but that's another topic.

 

How large is your tank BTW, and what is the current stocklist like (corals/clams)?

[Highland Reefer]

I have a 110 gal tank with a 20 gal sump. I plan to add-on to this with a frag tank, a DSB & refugium. The current Skimmer I am using is an AquaC EV-180, which s^cks because I have to constantly adjust it to skim wet. Don't tell the new member SnowHeart I said that, she might buy this piece of junk. Whoops, I hope she don't read this.

 

 

 

Tanks inhabitants:

1) Mustard Tang 2) Blue Hippo 3) Yellow Goby -Cryptocentrus cinctus 4) Zebra Goby - Pterapogon zebra 9) Open Brain Coral - Brown Plerogyra 10) Tea Cup Coral - Lavender - Goniopora 11) Toad Stool Coral Coral - Surviver from when tank went down. Poor condition. Just a pile of a mass. 12) Green Galaxy Coral. Large Piece. Good condition. Galaxea sp 13) Two Purple Mushrooms. One large & one small. Actinodiscus sp 14) One Puple with white markings Mushroom. Small Actinodiscus sp 15) One red mushroom. Small Actinodiscus sp 16) One Hawk Fish. 17) 50 Turbo snails & another type of snails. 18) 1 white snail with showy character.

19) One nice green bubble coral. 20) One new rock with macro algae.

21) Green Bubble Coral. Green Galaxy coral. Nice size. 2) Orange Marble Starfish - Fromia monilis

3) Green Bubble coral. Nice size // Died 2/29/2008. 4) Hawkfish.

Foxface fish, Siganus vulpinus (medium) Died: 3/5/2007

Toadstool coral (large) - sarcophyton glaucum

Given by Steve Glassman: Xenia, Star Polyps Purple Montipora Plate Coral (large); 5 smanll frags of green green digi - Montipora digitata; 1 head frag of hammer coral. From Wamas Meeting 1" Yellowstripe Maroon Clown (Premnas Bioceleatus) from Jim in Gaithersburg (Tropical Fish World). Will host: aka Ritteri anemonae. 5 head frag of multi-color hammerhead coral from davjbeas (Dave B.) of WAMAS. Umbrella Leather coral (brown vase shapped) from Jim @ Tropical Aquairium. Pavona sp. Coral (Cactus Coral);

Copperband Butterflyfish (Chelmon rostratus) From: Scales Tropical Fish Warehouse. Neon Green Polyped Toadstool From Eve of Wamas. The mother colony was purchased directly from Tyree's sign-up list by Eve. Total of 7 Frags at Wamas Meeting. One free BLUE XENIA from Bob Landman. Small frag on small rock.

Recieved from Bob Lanman of WAMAS: Green slimer - about 2" of coral - this is the VERY green, fluorescent green slimer from Caribbean Jake's tank breakdown. Cut a few weeks ago, starting to grow and encrust. $10

Bobzreef LE rainbow montipora - encrusting monti - wild-caught from Fiji. Grows fast. This coral has gone through every possible color transformation. At certain times it has looked just like the Tyree rainbow, but with larger polyps. In my 240, under good light - it is pretty much brown on blue, but very bright orange-red polyps under actinics. each 1/3 of this 1"x3" marble 'frag plug'. So that is about a 1" x 1" frag - $10

 

Recieved 4 frags from Reefhunter of Wamas. ? Yellow Dwarf Fuzzy Lionfish from Showcase. I think I did a nice cut and past job here.

[Highland Reefer]

Garrett,

 

You were right about the CO2. My PH was running at 7.9 this AM. My wife decided to do some Spring cleaning and opened all the windows and doors in the house. I just went past my Ph meter and it is now reading 8.2 which is the highest it has been all winter at the present KH. The next thing I will have to look into is trying to get my aqarium vented to the outside air.

[Highland Reefer]

I have been contemplating about venting my skimmer, which is located in the basement, to the outside air.This would be about a 15' run. I am thinking about running a 4" flexible duct to a dryer type exterior vent. I would remove the flap and install a screen to keep what have you from entering the house. I could then hook up the skimmer vent to this duct. I don't know if this would help or if I would be waisting my time. Any input would be appreciated.

[flowerseller]

You will not experience long term benefits with this approach.

[Highland Reefer]

You will not experience long term benefits with this approach.

 

 

Any suggestions?

[flowerseller]

You found your largest help via venting the house.

 

in short-

Keeping kalk fresh and evaporation high is always beneficial. Venting the house via some form will typically decrease CO2 build up and increase evaporation therefore allowing more high pH kalk to be added.

Water chages are also helpful.

You will again experience this when you close the house up to run your A/C

 

 

 

example-

We live in old McLean in the charming smaller homes which also had crapy windows which made for a drafty house. Even with a heavily stocked, well feed and very vigoruosly turned over system, I always enjoyed decent pH, except when I had a houseful of people for coctails or tank tours. My pH would always drop within a 10-15 minute period as the ambiant CO2 collected.

 

When we replaced all our windows and doors this winter, my pH became a constant battle and source of irritation since. I blame a now very tight house and the fact that my tiny wife is always cold so won't let me keep a window open in the family room. I open one, she closes it, I open another, she closes it, I opened it, she taped it shut, I got the point.

 

.

[Highland Reefer]

You found your largest help via venting the house.

 

in short-

Keeping kalk fresh and evaporation high is always beneficial. Venting the house via some form will typically decrease CO2 build up and increase evaporation therefore allowing more high pH kalk to be added.

Water chages are also helpful.

You will again experience this when you close the house up to run your A/C

 

 

 

example-

We live in old McLean in the charming smaller homes which also had crapy windows which made for a drafty house. Even with a heavily stocked, well feed and very vigoruosly turned over system, I always enjoyed decent pH, except when I had a houseful of people for coctails or tank tours. My pH would always drop within a 10-15 minute period as the ambiant CO2 collected.

 

When we replaced all our windows and doors this winter, my pH became a constant battle and source of irritation since. I blame a now very tight house and the fact that my tiny wife is always cold so won't let me keep a window open in the family room. I open one, she closes it, I open another, she closes it, I opened it, she taped it shut, I got the point.

 

.

 

Thanks, my wife is the same way.

 

By the way, this is the link for Peary Graduates. I don't know if you are signed up here yet: http://www.pearyhs.org/

[hbh]

LOL! Thanks for the laugh as this wife sits here freezing with a heavy coat and long warm scarf wrapped around her head! And why???? Because someone has left a stubborn -to- hard- to close window open! LOL! Thanks, maybe I'll try taping!

[Highland Reefer]

I have another what if question: Suppose I install a bathroom type vent fan over my sump in the basement, except reverse the flow of the fan, and hook it up to my PH controller. I would set it to a low PH where the fan would draw the air from the outside and then go off when the PH was back to normal. Last night I opened the window in the basement where my sump is after noticing that the PH was back down to 8.0. When I got up, it was back up to 8.2. Neadless to say, it was a bit chilly in the basement.