Calcium reactors

[FishWife]

OK, so we bought Mike's DIY calcium reactor (based on original Sanjay Joshi design, which included a secondary reaction chamber and media). We got it up and running and have questions, naturally (since this is me... )

 

1. We fired up the puppy and it dripped a milky white solution that made our tank cloudy. So, after about a day, we called Mike who instructed us to flush it with fresh water, which we did. Now, with tank water running thru it, it's clear. But, it's not raising our calcium count any; if anything, our calcium count has gone down from getting some additional fresh water into the system. I measured what's coming out of the reactor and its at about 370... what?... ppm? ANYWAYS: is this normal? Do calc. reactors just chug alone at 370 or so, or should it be higher?

 

2. If it should be higher, what do we do: refill with medium, I guess?

 

3. If we want to bring up the calcium levels and also the pH (which right now sits squarely at 8.0 no matter what) how do we best do this, and over what amount of time?

 

4. We also started to run some carbon, from a cannister filter. Some of our softies look unhappy. Could this be from either the calc. reactor or the carbon... or any kind of interplay between the two?

 

TIA, as always!

[dandy7200]

moved to general discussion

[FishWife]

moved to general discussion

 

Ooops. Where'd I put it? :( ANYways... thanks.

[flowerseller]

Wow,

lot's of new happening at once.

 

What is your target Ca?

 

If it's used media and more than a few months old, replace it.

Old or used media that has been allowed to dry or partially dry should be replaced.

 

ultimately -IMHO - you'll have two distinct ways you can run your CA reactor.

a. high alk 25+ (35 is possible) as a drip from the effluent - Ca 400-500

b. lower alk 14ish as a stream from the effluent - Ca 400-500

 

I always tell people Ca reactors to really more like alk reactors so watch your alk.

I also tell them to raise CA with calcium chloride to the target Ca (under 420 IMO and closer to 400)

If given the choice, I'd be happier with say Ca 370-400 and alk of 11-12 than I would be with Ca of 450-500 and alk of 8-9

[FishWife]

Wow,

lot's of new happening at once.

 

Agreed, and it doesn't even count our first GRANDDAUGHTER!!! (see www.lampstandpress.com/nora)

 

What is your target Ca?

 

That's kind of what I was asking! When we first tested, it was around 370. It seems to have gone DOWN to 350.

 

I also tell them to raise CA with calcium chloride to the target Ca (under 420 IMO and closer to 400)

 

HOW? Do we buy/dump in calcium chloride? Remember, we're still really WET behind the ears, here.... so apologies up front for being dense. Also... is an Alk test the water hardness/kH one?

 

You gave me good answers above. Go blow out your candles, and I'll ask Scott what he thinks of your numbers. THANKS!

Edited November 20, 2007 by FishWife

[Rascal]

What is the Alk of your reactor effluent compared to the Alk of your tank water?

 

If it is not significantly higher then you are not giving the CO2 an opportunity to react with the media. If this is the case it could be either because your bubble count is too low or your drip rate is too high. In the latter case, you would be just driving down your tank's PH without raising either the Alk or Ca.

 

IMO -- use the reactor to get your Alk stable first and then worry about the Ca level.

 

When/if it comes time to adjust the Ca by itself, yes you can just buy Calcium Chloride (ex: Kent's "Turbo Calcium") and slowly dose it until the level rises to where you want it. Once there your calcium reactor should maintain it without further dosing.

 

For Calcium Reactor tuning, this is a good thread:

 

http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=9103

 

And from another thread, follow this good advice from Dandy7200 on how to make adjustments:

The bubble rate (bpm) from the C02 and the effluent drip rate (ml/min) are tied together, so you cannot adjust one without the other. If you have a bpm of 30 and a ml/min of 60 and you know that you effluent out is 16dkh and you are adding 1dkh alk to your tank/day at that rate then you can tweek things. You must however keep the bpm and ml/min tied together in that ratio (the example is 1:2 ) to keep the effluent consistant at 16dkh. If you were to just increase you ml/min and not the bpm you might get something like 30bpm and 90 ml/min with a effluent of 13dkh and a total daily addition of the same 1dkh. Notice that the ratio changed to 1:3 and the effluent dropped in alk? So if you keep the ratio and raise your bpm to 45 and you ml/min to 90 your alk will stay the same 16dkh and your daily addition will be 1.5dkh.

[flowerseller]

If it is not significantly higher then you are not giving the CO2 an opportunity to react with the media. If this is the case it could be either because your bubble count is too low or your drip rate is too high. In the latter case, you would be just driving down your tank's PH without raising either the Alk or Ca.

 

I agree with this but have trouble living by it. In my situation, I know I'm using better than 2.5 dkh daily and have recently ( 2-3 months ago) switched media to Gen-X cousre grade. Internal flow is great but I find the need to run a lower pH in the reactor to get the reaction as I did with A.R.M. smaller media. This ultimately lowers tank pH slightly as well which is what Rascal said happens.

This is a more conservative approach since it's slower to cook your tank with a lower DKH in the reactor itself.

[FishWife]

I agree with this but have trouble living by it. In my situation, I know I'm using better than 2.5 dkh daily and have recently ( 2-3 months ago) switched media to Gen-X cousre grade. Internal flow is great but I find the need to run a lower pH in the reactor to get the reaction as I did with A.R.M. smaller media. This ultimately lowers tank pH slightly as well which is what Rascal said happens.

This is a more conservative approach since it's slower to cook your tank with a lower DKH in the reactor itself.

 

OK, so what, exactly, do we use for media? (We got SOME from Mike, but not enough to refill to where he had the old stuff when we got the unit, and it's unlabeled. It looks like coarse aragonite sand... is that what we use?)

 

And, is ALK the same as harness? measured in kH units in the test we have... what's the "d" you're using above, Chip?

 

And, how do you "run a lower pH"? What in the reactor affects pH?

Edited November 20, 2007 by FishWife

[Rascal]

OK, so what, exactly, do we use for media? (We got SOME from Mike, but not enough to refill to where he had the old stuff when we got the unit, and it's unlabeled. It looks like coarse aragonite sand... is that what we use?)

 

And, is ALK the same as harness? measured in kH units in the test we have... what's the "d" you're using above, Chip?

 

And, how do you "run a lower pH"? What in the reactor affects pH?

 

Alk is short for Alkalinity - yes it's like hardness. Kh and dKH measure the amount of carbonate in your water. Since stony corals are made of calcium carbonate, it is important that you maintain the right balance of both in your tank to promote health and growth.

 

Carbon Dioxide is highly acidic, so saturating the water with CO2 will lower PH. The media inside calcium reactors (you guessed it - calcium carbonate) will start to dissolve when the PH drops low enough. Different brands have slightly different dissolution points, but the principal is the same.

 

Before you begin using a Calcium reactor, Kalk reactor, or dosing with anything else, it is important to know exactly what are your levels of Calcium and Alkalinity in your tank and decide what levels you are aiming for. Make sure you are using a good test kit (most here still use Salifert I think, yours truly included). IMO it is also important to test your fresh saltwater, because this will help you determine whether you even need to dose anything for the time being. It is possible you can maintain your target levels with water changes alone. If this is a new tank and you are using a good salt mix, I would even say it is probable.

 

After you do a bit more reading go back and read those threads I linked earlier. They might make a bit more sense to you then. In the meantime, here are a couple of links to keep you busy:

Primer on Calcium Reactors: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/...ature/index.php

This article claims to be "simplified": http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php

But I find this one to be a little more practical: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

Edited November 21, 2007 by Rascal

[Dentoid]

My understanding is that Ca reactors are for maintaining Ca in a system that already have the targets met rather than for raising already low Ca and Alk . You may want to consider dosing with B-Ionic gradually until you reach your target #'s of Ca and Alk then test for how long it takes to drop. Use your Ca reactor to maintain your target numbers.