lighting scheme

[jamal]

i was thinking of doing 2x 400 watt 20k's and a 250 watt 10 k. to supplement i was thinking 2x 80 watt t5's and 2 vho's. what do you guys think

[jamesbuf]

Not sure how it would look to have parts of the tank with different spectrums. Not saying it couldn't work, I've just never seen it before. Plus, why do 400watts and have to deal with the heat issues?

[ReeferMan]

i have seen different spectrum bulbs on a tank in IMO it looked bad.

[jamal]

ok perhaps i should explain my desire and maybe that will help with advice. i want it to be blue but i would like a whitish hue to it. so i thought that a mix of 20k for blue and 10k for white. in terms of par i thought that if i did 20k lights i would have to do 400 watt lights or the par wouldnt be high enough. i certainly dont want all 10k lights.

[ReeferMan]

i say do 20k with t-5 suppliments if thats your goal. Two 400w and a 250w is going to be some serious heat!

[madmax7774]

The color choice is pure personal preference, and unless you've seen someone else's lights that you like, no advice will help on that. I have to agree with the others on the heat issue though. dual 400's and a 250 will definately cause heat issues. If you go that route, plan on a chiller. If you dont mind my asking, what size tank are you putting these on?

[jamal]

i have a 1/4hp pacific coast chiller. i know i want a blue looking spectrum. so if i go with all 20k lights how can i do this on 250 watt bulbs. wont that be too little par? its going to be over my 180gal tank

Edited September 23, 2007 by jamal

[jamesbuf]

I would go with the 250watt phoenix 14K is you want a nice blue hue, and then use the T5s to supplement some extra PAR. Or you could use some 250watt 10K XM bulbs which will give you plenty of par, then use the super actinic VHOs for actinic supplementation. I've seen both of these setups and both are very nice. I kept reading about the VHO actinics giving such a good blue "pop" and I have now seen it in person on several tanks and I do believe it to be superior to the T5s for adding blue to the tank. I myself like to have a blue tinge to my tank, and was very impressed with the phoenix 14K I had on my old light, even with the crappy oddysea ballast, but once I get my canopy for the 92gal I'm going to use a 10K XM and supplement with the VHO actinics.

[jamal]

ive seen phoenix 14k's and i was looking for something bluer like the color of the frag tanks at f&f. anybody got an idea of something like that

[jamesbuf]

I really don't know of any way to get high par out of a 20K bulb. You can checkout sanjays lighting page and see which ballasts will help you get the highest PAR out of whichever 20K bulb you chose.

 

I guess if you've got your heart set on 20K, then you might have to go with the 400watts to get some decent PAR and growth.

[jamal]

yes that is what i understood and why i was going for the 10k 20k mixture. i may just do the 14k with heavy actiniccs. if i get 14k bulbs will that be enough par similar to 10k's?

[jamesbuf]

Not even close. Go to http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/ and look through and you'll see the dramatic dropoff in PAR when you look at the top 14K bulbs as compared to the top 10K bulbs. You could always just run three or four of the 6' VHO bulbs to get your blue hue.

[bigJPDC]

yeah Jamal - you don't get to mix and match like you do with T5's because MH is point focus instead of spread out from the T5 SLR's - that's why they are famous for their shimmer.

Pick a K and suppliment with VHO actinics to pop the corals.

[jamal]

so in terms of par 20k and 14k are closer to each other and then 10k is higher.

[Rascal]

As far as the PAR drop-off, it really depends on the bulbs. I have both 10K and 14K ushio 250W DEs. The 10K is in the middle with two 14K's on the outside. The tank is only 5' long so there is some overlap and blending.

 

Yeager just left here with the WAMAS PAR meter. I was pleasantly surprised at the lack of drop-off in PAR from the 10Ks to the 14Ks. My bulbs are 7.5" off the surface. Just above the surface readings were over 1600 10K and over 1400 14K. At 3" from the surface I get about 1050 with the 14Ks, 1150 with 10K. 12" down and I am still getting about 450 with 14K, 550 with 10K. This is with an ebay retro kit - cheapo ballasts and cheapo reflectors (shielded).

 

So for PAR, the 14k Ushio 250 DE is one heck of a bulb. I don't know how blue it is compared to other bulbs because it's the only 14K I've ever had and I don't think Sanjay has tested them yet. It seems like these bulbs plus some T5 and VHO actinic supplementation might give you the blue-with-a-white-tinge look that you are after.

[jamal]

that is what i was talking about doing. but i was going to do 2 x 20k bulbs and a 10k in the middle. anyway maybe i could do 3 250 watt 14k's with vho's from ushio. what do you guys think?

[davelin315]

Hey Jamal, check out the Helios 20000K bulbs. I can do a PAR reading for you on mine if you'd like. I run them on Lumenarc III reflectors with a 400W PFO HQI ballast. They are a very white bulb as compared to other 20000K bulbs I have seen. If you want, you can swing by to see them on my frag set up (I hopefully will have them up on my tank soon, but I am still waiting for that 8-way replacement part...). As far as I'm concerned they are awesome bulbs. They are also used by Fragfarmer.com and Reefermadness.us on their tanks and the coloration they give is awesome. I don't plan on supplementing with actinics on my system due to the color of the bulbs already. I don't feel I need to supplement these because they are white with a little bit of blue and they cause corals to fluoresce.

[jamesbuf]

BRK has Ushio 14K over their grow out tanks and they are not blue at all. I thought they were 10K until Bryon told me they were 14K. I would go check them out to see if they are blue enough for you before you go that route.

[jamal]

good point james i will do that. also i would like a test and analysis as par readings are a bit above my head as of now. do you have alot of heat issues with the 400 watt lights?

[Rascal]

that is what i was talking about doing. but i was going to do 2 x 20k bulbs and a 10k in the middle. anyway maybe i could do 3 250 watt 14k's with vho's from ushio. what do you guys think?

 

I wouldn't do the 2 x 20K + 10K on your tank. Figuring you get about 2' of coverage per bulb, there would be a clear difference in color spectrum in the middle of the tank. I just don't think it would look right. Since my tank is only 5' long and I have the bulbs 15" apart, the color from the 14K blends with the 10K, so it just looks brighter in the middle of the tank.

 

Dave, let us know how the PAR reading come out on your bulbs. It would be interesting to see the comparison.

 

[Aside: with so much interest now in PAR for different bulbs, I wonder why the manufactures don't include the information with their marketing. It seems it would be relatively easy to come up with an informal industry standard - say 10" from the bulbs - by which comparisons could be made. Until then, at least we have Sanjay.]

[jamal]

i thought that the lumenarcs were supposed to do 3'x3' coverage so i figured it would work but who am i to say. corporations by nature try to include the least amount of info about there product particularly in reference to performance in real world applications as they possibly can.

[Rascal]

i thought that the lumenarcs were supposed to do 3'x3' coverage

 

Guess that's why people like 'em so much. Like I said, I got a cheapo ebay unit and then upgraded the bulbs. My reflectors just cover front and back of the bulbs, so the only spread I'm getting is from the bulbs themselves.

 

If it's really 3' this might work: 400W 20K helios on the outsides and a 250W DE 14K ushio in the middle. Might give you a pretty cool effect without the need for supplementation (although personally I would still have some just so you can keep the lights on longer).

 

If you care to venture out to "the burbs", you're more than welcome to come over to see the color on my lights for yourself.

[YBeNormal]

I think you are getting some great advice here Jamal. The one thing I would add is that I would go VHO over T5 if you are looking toward fluorescent bulbs to provide the blue accent. T5's are great for many things but actinics are not their strong point.

[jamal]

well since my tank advisor likes a bluer look as well it seems i will be going with 3x 400 watt mh's and 3 vho's. do i need one ice cap 660 for three lights or two?

[bigJPDC]

how did you get to change your title above your avatar!!!!!