Need Help - ACII Owners - Float Switch Question

[Guest Bemmer]

Okay folks, I need some help getting the float switch to work properly...

 

I have my float switch hooked up into a Neptune Breakout Box. The two wires from the float switch are "plugged" into ports I1 and I2 in the Breakout box. Then the Breakout Box is plugged into the serial outlet in the ACII.

 

I programmed the ACII as follows...

If Switch1 closed then H2O off

If Switch1 open then H2O on

 

The H2O address is A4 on my DC8

 

The water is coming into my sump via an Aqualift pump, which is plugged into the A4 outlet on the DC8.

 

Problem

The Aqualift pump does not shut off when the float switch is "up" (assuming that is closed).

Which way is "closed", when the float is up or down? I tried programming the ACII both ways.

 

I know the ACII is registering the float switch because the water symbol displays on and off in the ACII display screen, when I raise and lower the float in the sump.

 

Any thoughts?? Thanks.

[dhoch]

Sometimes very low voltage devices have this problem (this has been reported with this pump before).

 

Best thing to do is to get a small extension chord (the 1' plug three things in model) and plug in a small wattage bulb.

 

Dave

[Guest Bemmer]

Sometimes very low voltage devices have this problem (this has been reported with this pump before).

 

Best thing to do is to get a small extension chord (the 1' plug three things in model) and plug in a small wattage bulb.

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your reply. I think I understand what you are saying. I believe that you are suggesting a way to test the ACII with the DC8 outlet to be sure that the outlet works properly. Thus, I should plug an electrical cord with a light bulb in to the A4 outlet of my DC8. Then raise and lower the float to see if the light goes on and off, thus indicating that the ACII is programmed correctly. Is that what you are saying??? If that is the case, where do I find the electrical cord you are talking about? And what wattage bulb?

 

R-

[dhoch]

Actually it's more than that... I mean you could test it like that and make sure it's working... but no you need to wire 2 things to the socket (light bulb and pump)... small like candle light, or night light should work.

 

Dave

[Guest Bemmer]

Actually it's more than that... I mean you could test it like that and make sure it's working... but no you need to wire 2 things to the socket (light bulb and pump)... small like candle light, or night light should work.

 

Dave

 

Okay, now I get it. Dave will put something together for me tomorrow. I will let you know how it works out. Good way to test it.

[lanman]

Okay, now I get it. Dave will put something together for me tomorrow. I will let you know how it works out. Good way to test it.

 

Someone posted a while back - that the pump itself draws so little current that the controller didn't even know it was there. He added a light bulb to the same circuit, and it worked properly.

 

bob

[Guest Bemmer]

Okay, so do I understand this correctly? Am I splicing the plug of the aqualifter with wiring from an extension cord. Then plug in an electric candle stick or night light into the extension cord. Then plug the extension cord into the ACII in the A4 outlet?

[dandy7200]

You can buy a cheap hang on utility light that has a accessory socket and use the socket to plug the pump into while the light is on.

 

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/l...o_1945_10510531

[lanman]

You can buy a cheap hang on utility light that has a accessory socket and use the socket to plug the pump into while the light is on.

 

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/l...o_1945_10510531

 

Oooo - you're a pretty smart fella!

 

bob

[Guest Bemmer]

You can buy a cheap hang on utility light that has a accessory socket and use the socket to plug the pump into while the light is on.

 

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/l...o_1945_10510531

 

 

Dan,

That is a great idea. I will see if HD carries this light...and ditto to Bob's comment too.

[lanman]

Dan,

That is a great idea. I will see if HD carries this light...and ditto to Bob's comment too.

 

Well, here I was wiring the light up in parallel in my head - and he presents us with a light and outlet already pre-wired in parallel. Pretty bright!

 

bob

[madmax7774]

Rebecca,

I had the exact same problem with my aquacontroller when I set mine up a few weeks ago, and I posted about it here:

 

http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?show...mp;#entry116465

 

The guys above are correct about the problem, but there are 2 parts to fixing this problem. I went out of my mind tying to figure it out. The easiest way to fix this, (what I did) is to:

 

(1)plug a grounded extension cord with several plugs on one end(think of the 6' white ones that many people use to plug in several strings of christmas lights...), from A4 on the DC8. Into the other end of the extension cord, you need to plug both the aqualifter pump, and a nightlight or small lamp of somekind. That way, when the aqualifter turns on, the light does too, and both items together draw enough current for the aquacontroller to work properly.

(2)The second half of this issue,that the aquacontroller's have with the float switch, is called "hysteresis". You will probably run into that too. ( I did) Basically you have to tell the aquacontroller that once the float switch is in the off position, it is not allowed to turn back on for a few minutes (I use 10 minutes). If you don't add this, you will switch will very rapidly go on,off,on,off,on,off,on,off..... and it will keep doing this. The effect of this is that the aqualifter pump will 'seem' like it is staying on, which will further complicate and confuse things. I didn't even realize this was happening to me until I plugged in the nightlight, and saw that it was flashing on,off,on,off....

 

The code for this is

max change 10M then H20 OFF

 

this statement can be added anywhere in the programming. You can change the time in minutes to whatever you like. I started with 240M ( 4hours) but quickly realized that was too long. I settled on 10M and it works great now. I hope that my explanation is clear. If I have confused you more PM me, and I will call you and walk you through it.

John

[Guest Bemmer]

Rebecca,

I had the exact same problem with my aquacontroller when I set mine up a few weeks ago, and I posted about it here:

 

http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?show...mp;#entry116465

 

The guys above are correct about the problem, but there are 2 parts to fixing this problem. I went out of my mind tying to figure it out. The easiest way to fix this, (what I did) is to:

 

(1)plug a grounded extension cord with several plugs on one end(think of the 6' white ones that many people use to plug in several strings of christmas lights...), from A4 on the DC8. Into the other end of the extension cord, you need to plug both the aqualifter pump, and a nightlight or small lamp of somekind. That way, when the aqualifter turns on, the light does too, and both items together draw enough current for the aquacontroller to work properly.

(2)The second half of this issue,that the aquacontroller's have with the float switch, is called "hysteresis". You will probably run into that too. ( I did) Basically you have to tell the aquacontroller that once the float switch is in the off position, it is not allowed to turn back on for a few minutes (I use 10 minutes). If you don't add this, you will switch will very rapidly go on,off,on,off,on,off,on,off..... and it will keep doing this. The effect of this is that the aqualifter pump will 'seem' like it is staying on, which will further complicate and confuse things. I didn't even realize this was happening to me until I plugged in the nightlight, and saw that it was flashing on,off,on,off....

 

The code for this is

max change 10M then H20 OFF

 

this statement can be added anywhere in the programming. You can change the time in minutes to whatever you like. I started with 240M ( 4hours) but quickly realized that was too long. I settled on 10M and it works great now. I hope that my explanation is clear. If I have confused you more PM me, and I will call you and walk you through it.

John

 

John,

Thank you so much for your explaination. I will try this tomorrow, as I have not had time to purchase the light with the plug, that Dan had suggested (Also, an excellent option). I have the extension cord and the night light.

 

The program for the ACII is critical. Otherwise, that on, off, on, off would have cause more confusion. I will certainly let you and everyone know how it turns out.

 

Thanks again....I knew I could not have been the only one with this problem.

[Guest Bemmer]

Well, as an update to my problem...I still have my problem.

 

Hey John,

I setup the grounded extension cord with the night light and the aqualift pump. Worked like a charm. Whenever the pump came on the light would come on. I would play with the float switch in the sump and it would turn the pump on and off. Works well.

 

THEN...

 

When I set the program in the ACII (max change 10m then H2O off). It did not seem to work. Twice I have come into the room with the sump almost overflowing. The pump did not turn off. I unplugged it and am back to manually adding water. My seahorse tank got down to 1.020 salinity so I did not want to risk it anymore.

 

Sort of back to square one...

[lanman]

Well, as an update to my problem...I still have my problem.

 

Hey John,

I setup the grounded extension cord with the night light and the aqualift pump. Worked like a charm. Whenever the pump came on the light would come on. I would play with the float switch in the sump and it would turn the pump on and off. Works well.

 

THEN...

 

When I set the program in the ACII (max change 10m then H2O off). It did not seem to work. Twice I have come into the room with the sump almost overflowing. The pump did not turn off. I unplugged it and am back to manually adding water. My seahorse tank got down to 1.020 salinity so I did not want to risk it anymore.

 

Sort of back to square one...

 

Stupid computers! I'm sure it's a programming problem; post your whole program and let people pick it apart.

 

bob

[flowerseller]

Stupid computers! I'm sure it's a programming problem; post your whole program and let people pick it apart.

 

bob

 

Or when it turns on, it starts a siphon which will continue after the pump shuts off.

Let's see the programs. just C & P them and we can look to see.

 

Maybe we should start our own Neptune thread here at WAMAS

[lanman]

Or when it turns on, it starts a siphon which will continue after the pump shuts off.

Let's see the programs. just C & P them and we can look to see.

 

Maybe we should start our own Neptune thread here at WAMAS

 

ah... but she said the pump did not turn off (I guess you could tell by the light bulb being lighted!)...

 

bob

[flowerseller]

ah... but she said the pump did not turn off (I guess you could tell by the light bulb being lighted!)...

 

bob

Nice work Sherlock, if that is the case.

In that case, then I would think an OSC statement might be in order,

IE;

OSC 002/120 ON/OFF Then PM1 OFF

this would allow the top off pump to be on (and light lite) for 2 minutes (adding water) and then stay off for 120 minutes [(not adding water) assuming it's not starting a siphon with sump and top off tank equalizing before stopping]

 

She would have to play with the "ON/OFF" values and the "PM1" would be what ever she has named the top off pump.

 

That said, it may conflict with the MAX Change but it may also make it obsolete depending on the time values needed to keep a fairly constant level without causing the bumping on/off.

[Guest Bemmer]

Nice work Sherlock, if that is the case.

In that case, then I would think an OSC statement might be in order,

IE;

OSC 002/120 ON/OFF Then PM1 OFF

this would allow the top off pump to be on (and light lite) for 2 minutes (adding water) and then stay off for 120 minutes [(not adding water) assuming it's not starting a siphon with sump and top off tank equalizing before stopping]

 

She would have to play with the "ON/OFF" values and the "PM1" would be what ever she has named the top off pump.

 

That said, it may conflict with the MAX Change but it may also make it obsolete depending on the time values needed to keep a fairly constant level without causing the bumping on/off.

 

Bob and Chip

Thanks for sticking with me on this issue. I don't know how to print off a copy of my timer programs. Can you tell me how to do that?

 

I will try the OSC statement tomorrow and see how it works. I named the top off unit "H2O". why did you chose 120 off? Any particular reason. I would like test it at 002/60 On/Off.

 

The top-off water hose is not below the water surface so no issue with siphon.

[flowerseller]

Bob and Chip

Thanks for sticking with me on this issue. I don't know how to print off a copy of my timer programs. Can you tell me how to do that?

Cut and paste from your program editor (this is if you have access from your computer)

 

I will try the OSC statement tomorrow and see how it works. I named the top off unit "H2O". why did you chose 120 off? Any particular reason. I would like test it at 002/60 On/Off.

I just picked values and suggested you will have to play with them to get it right. 120 is 2 hours between more additions as long as your float says it needs it.

You'll know your system better.

 

The top-off water hose is not below the water surface so no issue with siphon.

That's not what I was refering to but it's more like if the water keeps flowing after the pump shuts off.

A pic, if in the right spot, may help if it shows all that is involved.

[madmax7774]

Rebecca,

Sorry I haven't responded sooner, I have been off the boards lately. The aqualifter pump will NOT stop a syphon when in the off state. I found this out the hard way. I had to add a John Guest style "T" fitting on the output side of my pump, and run a line up into the air about 5 feet. What this does is act as a siphon break so that when the pump stops, air can be drawn into the line, ans break the syphon. The trick is to make sure that the siphon break line is long enough to prevent water from spilling out. I just ran mine all the way up to the cieling. I know this probably makes no sense, but I can explain more if you need it. If you are still confused, PM me, and I can stop over one evening, and help you get it all working for you. (I don't mind stopping over, It's a great excuse to see your tank!). As far as your AC programming, I have not found an easy way to dump the whole program to a file yet, so it's probably quicker to just scroll through the timer programs and write them down by hand.(I have an AC jr, so it's computer connectivity is limited.)