cyanobacteria

[Ne0eN]

I have been having a problem with cyanobacteria in my tank. I am pretty sure that my house sitter probably over fed my tank while I was away about a month ago. Anyway, I have been doing water changes weekly and it seems to improve the problem but never solves it. The very next day, I can see signs of it coming back and within a few days it looks terrible again. I am sure that I have not been overfeeding, in fact, I am starting to think some of fish want to eat me they are so hungry. Any ideas what I should try?

 

Also, the nitrates are high but I can't seem to solve that either. I put a de-nitrate bag in the sump, but there isn't really enough room in there to put more. I haven't seen improvement.

 

Thanks!

--Pam

 

PS) I have been changing about 36-45 gallons a week for the past 4 or 5 weeks. The tank is about 260 gallons plus the sump.

[quazi]

Are you using an RO/DI filter on the incoming water? If so, what is the outpur TDS?

[NRehman]

What can affect cyno? Some quick thoughts:

- water quality (feeding, changes, etc.)

- lighting (quality/age of bulbs, duration of lighting - you can cut back for a few days)

- competition (can you put algae that competes for food/light in your tank)

- flow - can you put some strategic powerheads to increase flow where there are dead spots in your tank (and cyano is growing)

- food chain consumers - there are some crabs/fish which will eat cyano (red tip hermit? please do a search on this and there are others with good experience with these herbivoires).

- physical extraction - use a siphon or other method to extra the cyano when doing your water change

Edited February 15, 2007 by NRehman

[YBeNormal]

de-nitrate bag?

[Ne0eN]

Thanks for your responses. Yes, I use Ro/Di. TDS reads .01.

 

I am doing water changes and have cut down on feeding A LOT! I could try to change light cycle, but don't want to cause problems for the clams etc.

 

I have many cleaners in there. Including a few hundred hermits (several are redtips), shrimp, snails, emeralds, sally, etc.

 

I think the flow where is started was an issue but am not sure I can find a way to resolve that without causing a sand storm.

 

Yes, it is called Denitrate. You can put it in a bag and keep it in a high flow area of your sump. It was recommended by folks at Wally's and Marine Scene a while ago. I think is just isn't enough in my sump but there is no room to put more (in a high flow area).

 

--Pam

[kingfish]

I've been having the same problem. I've controlled my lighting and feeding for the last month or more. I've added additional algae to compete and I still have the same problems. I left my lights off for 24 hours since I feed my fish every other day and evry last bit last bit of it disappeared. (By the way I have a clam as well.

 

I recnetly begin to run the lights as normal within 9 hours they were back again. I really thinks its my buld. Now I'am waiting for a shipment of bulbs.

 

Basically what i'm saying is that if you have been doing everything as you typically do, its seem the only paramter that changes overtime is the lighting. How old are your bulbs? I hope this helps some. My bulbs are at the approximately 7 months old.

[Ne0eN]

Thank you. The bulbs are not very old but will have to check how old. I do think the problem started when my well-intentioned house sitter fed my fish a crazy amount of food. I have been struggling like you to get it back under control. I will check the lighting and see what that does. Let me know if your new lights help you.

 

--Pam

[rrubberbandman]

I had red slime once......and that was the last time...thanks to ultralife red slime remover...shhhhhh...dont tell the vet's on here, they frown......but it hasnt shown its ugly face since dosing the stuff......disclaimer: it was used on a FOWLR tank.....loaded with mobile inverts and fish.

Bryan

[flowerseller]

Nice to hear from you again Pam.

Keep feeding the fish. Use a pinch of flake food and hold it in the water until it will sink.

Do this several times each feeding until you get the knack of how much they eat.

No frozen or liquid stuff.

 

More random current and make sure the waters surface is broken

 

I'm assuming you're still using kalk so keep it fresh.

I have a complete DIY reactor you can borrow.

[Ne0eN]

Thank you Chip! I actually started feeding them form 1, 2 and reef flakes exactly as you say about two weeks ago. I used to do that on occasion, but now I am only doing that-well except once a week, I was soaking it in selcon and garlic first. I won't do that now.

 

I am not sure what you mean by more randon current and make sure the water surface is broken. Can you suggest something I can buy to make that happen?

 

Yes, I am still using the Kalk and Kalk reactor but I think we need to replace the Kalk. I am guessing your DIY reactor is similar to mine? Anyway, thank you!

 

As always, I appreciate the tips! Hope all is well

--Pam

 

 

 

Nice to hear from you again Pam.

Keep feeding the fish. Use a pinch of flake food and hold it in the water until it will sink.

Do this several times each feeding until you get the knack of how much they eat.

No frozen or liquid stuff.

 

More random current and make sure the waters surface is broken

 

I'm assuming you're still using kalk so keep it fresh.

I have a complete DIY reactor you can borrow.

[flowerseller]

I am not sure what you mean by more randon current and make sure the water surface is broken. Can you suggest something I can buy to make that happen?

Lots of current throughout the tank that allows the waters surface to be choppy.

This allows for excellent air/gas exchange.

This can be accomplished with powerheads with one pointing towards the surface to create ripples.

 

Yes, I am still using the Kalk and Kalk reactor but I think we need to replace the Kalk. I am guessing your DIY reactor is similar to mine? Anyway, thank you!

--Pam

 

That's the kalk reactor I lead at one of group builds at my house and they work great.

Keep the kalk refreshed for best results. I refresh every two weeks.

 

This applies to any design of kalk reactor.

[davelin315]

Here's a bit of background on cyanobacteria. It's a moneran and it's one of two kinds of monerans, bacteria being one kind and cyanobacteria being the other kind. It's actually quite a beneficial organism when you think about it's role in our planet's life. It's theorized to be the original primordial soup organism that began to eat the noxious chemicals that were present on the planet's surface and then began to produce oxygen. It's also thought to possibly be the original blueprint for chlorophyll. Anyway, fast forward hundreds of millions of years and you get to the point we're at now, it being a nuisance "algae".

 

Again, it's not actually an algae, as all algaes are protoctists, so even though the way it survives is very similar, it's also very different. As a moneran, it literally can grow exponentially over time. Unlike an algae that will have a steady growth, this stuff will double, and then double again, and again... It's photosynthetic and also uses nutrients in the water to thrive, so when these are present AND available to it, it begins to grow. That means that if you have other forms of life that outcompete it it'll waste away. So, how do you combat it? There are several ways to do this.

 

The first way is to use an antibiotic. An antibiotic such as erythromycin will kill off the cyanobacteria just like it would kill off a bacterial infection in a person. The only problem is that the antibiotics, since they generally prescribe a broad spectrum antibiotic for this, can kill off other bacteria, too. You know those warnings on possible side effects when you take antibiotics? Same can happen to your tank (OK, it's not going to get diarrhea but if you think about how that affects your body, killing beneficial bacteria that help to process food in your intestines, you can think of the impact it could have on your biological filtration and the impact on the digestive systems of your inhabitants, etc.). Theoretically, and this is my making a stretch, it could also impact on the symbiotic relationship that corals have with their zooxanthellae as they might possibly share a historical link with cyanobacteria.

 

The other way is to make sure that conditions are not right for it. Turbulent flow in the aquarium keeps detritus and organics from settling and keeps them suspended in the water column where they can be removed. This can also prevent cyanobacteria from gaining a foothold as it needs calmer water to grow. If you keep your pumps going with alternating flow this will help to make it harder for cyanobacteria to get a foothold. If it can't stick, it can't grow very well. If you have other organisms which are more aggressively using up the nutrients that are needed by the cyanobacteria, you'll also prevent it from growing as well. This is especially true if you have some organisms such as clams that will eat up the nutrients whether it's light or dark. The last method of control is to simply have the appropriate light. If organisms have good lighting they will outcompete the cyano, which actually thrives in lesser light conditions. The better your light, the less likely it is to grow where there's light.

 

A couple of ways to manually control this are to kill the lights for about a week and let it die off and then change your water, simply pulling it off on a daily basis, the sugar technique (I tried it and don't like it, had too many unexplained side effects), or getting something that will eat it like a conch or certain crabs. Good luck, the best way to get rid of it, by the way, is simply by being persistent. You'll eventually beat it!

[flowerseller]

I have a complete DIY reactor you can borrow.

 

I ment to say I have a complete media reactor you can borrow.

[Ne0eN]

Thanks again, I will try what you say. You refresh every two weeks meaning add more, or dump old and replace with new?

 

BTW, I am not sure that I know what a complete media reactor actually is...

 

 

Lots of current throughout the tank that allows the waters surface to be choppy.

This allows for excellent air/gas exchange.

This can be accomplished with powerheads with one pointing towards the surface to create ripples.

 

 

 

That's the kalk reactor I lead at one of group builds at my house and they work great.

Keep the kalk refreshed for best results. I refresh every two weeks.

 

This applies to any design of kalk reactor.

 

Thank you Dave. I appreciate all of the information. I think I will try your less aggressive approach. Thank you!

--Pam

Edited February 16, 2007 by Ne0eN

[flowerseller]

You refresh every two weeks meaning add more, or dump old and replace with new?

either or and add/replace with new.

 

BTW, I am not sure that I know what a complete media reactor actually is...

--Pam

You add the desired media, hang in tank or sump, plug and play.

[Ne0eN]

Sounds like that could be helpful. Perhaps I could use that denitrate stuff. Have you heard of it or think it is worthwhile? Would carbon help. I have carbon but didn't have a media reactor.

 

--Pam

 

 

 

either or and add/replace with new.

 

 

You add the desired media, hang in tank or sump, plug and play.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Good info Dave. I have noticed that when cyano hits, it does tend to grow like crazy. At one point when I had a bad outbreak it seemed as if it was growing faster than I could syphon it out. What worked for me was cutting back on the lighting, and heavy syphoning. I did end up using the Ultralife Red Slime remover once during a particularly bad outbreak, and that did work, but the general consensus on that stuff is that not only kill it kill of the cyanobacteria, but will also kill off beneficial bacteria as well. IMO, only to be used as a last resort.

 

Pam, are you noticing that the cyano seems to recede during the night and blooms heavy during the day? The best time to syphon is later in the day while it is at it's peak.

[davelin315]

Actually, and this is simply a guess, not even an educated guess, I think that siphoning at night would be best when it's less active. That way, you miss less and it's not actively growing. I looked at it under a microscope before and this stuff, even though it looks like a "slime" is actually composed of tiny hair like structures that actively wave back and forth. It's ability to move and grow is incredible, so catch it when it's not moving and growing and I would think you'd have better success as far as getting rid of it.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Hmmm, from what I've read it tends to move down into the sand bed at night which is why it looks like it has receded. Wouldn't you need to syphon more sand by doing it that way?

 

Didn't you post shots of the cyano under the microscope? RDO maybe?

[davelin315]

I used to have some shots of it, maybe in the education forum?

[Ne0eN]

Thanks you two! I was wondering if I should try siphoning it. I was just doing water changes so I didn't suck up the sand. Yes, it does seem to retract at night. It almost has a gross bubble to it. I wonder if air bubbles air getting stuck in it, or if maybe it is part of it. Once it gets bubbly, it seems to lift from the sand and float around-great! That has to be good for spreading it everywhere. UGH! I was thinking maybe I couldn't see it as well when just the actinics are on. Good to know that it actually does seem to go away. What a PITA!!!!!! It's like an invasion! I appreciate everyone's help-thought I was going to lose this battle :( Now I have some new things to try.

 

--Pam

 

 

Hmmm, from what I've read it tends to move down into the sand bed at night which is why it looks like it has receded. Wouldn't you need to syphon more sand by doing it that way?

 

Didn't you post shots of the cyano under the microscope? RDO maybe?

[davelin315]

I think that the bubbles are actually proof that bacteria is at work in your sand bed. The bubbles are most likely the waste product of whatever they are doing (could be anaerobic bacteria releasing methane). Definitely siphon or peel the stuff off. It'll come back, but the more you get out, the more nutrients you are removing.

['Ric]

de-nitrate bag?

 

I am interested in that, too. What is a de-nitrate bag? Is there a recommendation for a good one? Nitrates still show up in my tank.

 

'Ric

[YBeNormal]

 

I am interested in that, too. What is a de-nitrate bag? Is there a recommendation for a good one? Nitrates still show up in my tank.

 

'Ric

 

Everything I've read states that chemical and mechanical media cannot strip nitrates from a SW tank. Some work by helping to strip and lock up organics that would otherwise break down into nitrates, but none that I've found will directly impact nitrates that are already in the tank. If this product really works, I'd be interested in hearing about it as well.

[Guest vatbrew]

i just did a water change yesterday, siphoning out some cyano, and it is already back today!!!!