phisigs79 January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 I got two tangs yesterday from the group buy and one of them was really stressed out. I didnt have time last night to setup a QT and put them in my frag tank. Now one has ick! Should i QT the two tangs? Or am i wasting my time since the frag tank is plumbed to the rest of the system that has other fish in it? Is Hypo the best for fish that are still stressed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRehman January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 (edited) Chris, Yikes..linked plumbing... 2c... maybe get a small QT. The ick may be in the "stuck on" phase, vs. dropping off, so maybe if you get them before they drop off and burrowing??? Nadir Edited January 6, 2007 by NRehman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squiddly January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 I got two tangs yesterday from the group buy and one of them was really stressed out. I didnt have time last night to setup a QT and put them in my frag tank. Now one has ick! Should i QT the two tangs? Or am i wasting my time since the frag tank is plumbed to the rest of the system that has other fish in it? Is Hypo the best for fish that are still stressed? I'm really sorry to hear that your fish have this. From everything I have researched, hypo is actually good for fish that are stressed because their bodies don't have to work quite as hard to maintain their own cellular integrity as their internal salinity is generally lower than the water's. But don't discount the added stress of moving the fish to another location to do the hypo. Hopefully someone with a lot more experience than I have will chime in to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrubberbandman January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 This isnt good.......makes ya wanna Sorry for what is seeming to be a bad exp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relad January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 THAT'S WHY I DON'T LIKE BUYING ONLINE!! YOU CAN'T SEE THE FISH UNTIL YOUR UNPACKING. THIS IS COMPARED TO LOCAL FISH STORES WHERE THEY DO THE LOW SALINITY BEFORE YOU BUY AND YOU CAN SEE IF THEY HAVE ICH.. JUST MY TWO CENTS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 Chris you can call me tonight at home after 7:00 if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norboo January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 (edited) THAT'S WHY I DON'T LIKE BUYING ONLINE!! YOU CAN'T SEE THE FISH UNTIL YOUR UNPACKING. THIS IS COMPARED TO LOCAL FISH STORES WHERE THEY DO THE LOW SALINITY BEFORE YOU BUY AND YOU CAN SEE IF THEY HAVE ICH.. JUST MY TWO CENTS... Doesn't much matter where you buy. Very good chance Blue Tangs will get ick even if they show no signs. Edited January 6, 2007 by Norboo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norboo January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 I would definitely go Hypo with both. Tangs don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 THAT'S WHY I DON'T LIKE BUYING ONLINE!! YOU CAN'T SEE THE FISH UNTIL YOUR UNPACKING. THIS IS COMPARED TO LOCAL FISH STORES WHERE THEY DO THE LOW SALINITY BEFORE YOU BUY AND YOU CAN SEE IF THEY HAVE ICH.. JUST MY TWO CENTS... CAPS HAPPY MUCH? What about isolating the tank, I assume you plummed in valves so this could be done... maybe maybe not. Since I don't belive you have any frags in there yet you could just hypo in that tank. Add a HOB filter or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phisigs79 January 6, 2007 Author Share January 6, 2007 I have frags on the frag tank so i am setting up a new QT tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squiddly January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 I have frags on the frag tank so i am setting up a new QT tank Keep a close eye on the pH while you're doing hypo. And don't forget to bring it down slowly, and bring it back up even more slowly. Let me know if there's anything I can add, since I've been through this. It's certainly not much fun, but it does work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phisigs79 January 6, 2007 Author Share January 6, 2007 how did you increase your PH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phisigs79 January 6, 2007 Author Share January 6, 2007 They are now QTed! How fast can i bring the salinity down and to what? Its sitting at 1.023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TROLL January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 Do a freshwater dip, that might help I'll suggest to quaratine the tangs for 2 weeks. Especially from on-line sale, you don't know what fish's health are, even the company doesn't care at all as long as you get your fish regardless of its' condition. Rule of aquarists: always quaratine for 2 weeks before adding to main tank. It's a lost art right now, tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norboo January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 (edited) how did you increase your PH Baking soda (about a table spoon per 20 gal. Mix in fresh water and add slowly.) Note: Test your PH level first. Give it a day or if you just mixed the salt. Adding baking soda might turn the water little chalky at first. That will go away after about a day. They are now QTed! How fast can i bring the salinity down and to what? Its sitting at 1.023 http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-j...posalinity.html http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-j.../marineich.html Edited January 6, 2007 by Norboo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norboo January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 Freshwater dips http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2004/mini4.htm Freshwater dips are largely ineffective in the treatment of Cryptocaryon irritans (Burgess, 1992). The host epidermis and thick layer of mucus form a barrier impervious to osmotic shock (Colorni, 1985). "Most of the trophonts whose hosts had undergone hyposalinity treatment, including freshwater, for at least 18 h, were still alive and occupied the same position in the host by the end of the experiment, following re-adaptation to sea water. They later dropped from the fish, encysted, and the tomonts produced tomites" (Colorni, 1985). Note that the above quote says "most" and not all trophonts. Trophonts embed themselves completely into the epithelium under a layer of skin. This protects these trophonts from dips. As the trophonts grow in size they gradually displace the overlying epithelium. This is when they become visible as white spots or nodules. Exposed trophonts may be susceptible to freshwater dips, but trophonts that survive continue in their life cycle making this method only partially effective at best. Freshwater dips can cause osmotic shock. Typically the fish are exposed to the air during the process of capture, handling and transfer, all of which are stressful to the fish. Freshwater dips cannot be depended on as the sole method of treatment for Cryptocaryon irritans and can be counterproductive because they are highly stressful to the fish. They should only be used in combination with other treatments that will successfully interrupt the parasite's life cycle ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-j...hwaterdips.html This freshwater dips are effective for a few parasites such as Amyloodinium and turbellarian flatworms. They are generally not effective for Marine "Ich". The dip should be performed in a bowl or dish, just deep enough for the fish. Distilled, Reverse Osmosis or Reverse Osmosis/Deionised water should be used. It is a good idea to aerate the water for 30 minutes or so to ensure it has sufficient oxygen. Some processed water can be a little low on oxygen. The temperature of the freshwater should be as close as possible to the temperature of the tank water. The pH of the freshwater should be as close as possible to the pH of the tank water. Add a small amount of baking soda (around half a teaspoon) to the water and mix well. This will add some bicarbonate and carbonate to the water which will help with the pH. Place the fish in the freshwater for around 3 minutes. Make sure the fish does not get too stressed and if it shows signs of extreme stress, remove it immediately. After 3 minutes put the fish back into the tank or into a quarantine tank if you have one. For fish with Amyloodinium, the freshwater dips will only provide a temporary solution and treatment with Cupramine in a separate treatment tank is recommended. For fish with turbellaria (AKA "Black Ich"), the freshwater dip should be repeated twice at 3 day intervals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norboo January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 (edited) Best thing is to QT them. Feed them well mixed with garlic or garlic extract. I fed mine Formula Two w/ 2% garlic and my own mixture. Hypo at 1.009 Temp at 82 Do water change every few days and suck out anything on the bottom of the tank. Skin will peels off slowly and they will look much better. Be patient and everything will be fine. Keep them QT for at least 6 weeks. About Garlic Edited January 6, 2007 by Norboo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TROLL January 6, 2007 Share January 6, 2007 Interesting! Freshwater dip worked well for me... Maybe not every case it will work so go with norboo's suggestion- he has better solution as I see it from previous discussion on reef central. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak January 7, 2007 Share January 7, 2007 Freshwater dips http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2004/mini4.htm Freshwater dips are largely ineffective in the treatment of Cryptocaryon irritans (Burgess, 1992). The host epidermis and thick layer of mucus form a barrier impervious to osmotic shock (Colorni, 1985). "Most of the ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-j...hwaterdips.html This freshwater dips are effective for a few parasites such as Amyloodinium and turbellarian flatworms. They are generally not effective for Marine "Ich". \ Good call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller January 7, 2007 Share January 7, 2007 Do a freshwater dip, that might help I'll suggest to quaratine the tangs for 2 weeks.Especially from on-line sale, you don't know what fish's health are, even the company doesn't care at all as long as you get your fish regardless of its' condition. Rule of aquarists: always quaratine for 2 weeks before adding to main tank. It's a lost art right now, tho. How do you say this statement knowing nothing about the online vendor, what took place after reciept, or the condition of the new enviornment? READ NOTHING BETWEEN THE LINES Many online vendors offer handsome quarantees, some as long as 2 weeks. I know of no shop you'll walk into that will quarantee your fish to live until you get home.. If there is, announce yourself, you deserve the recognition. Oddly, a fish packed and shipped to you overnight will often spend less time in a bag than the fish might going to one of our LFS and both are packed in coolers w/heat if needed. GB's excluded from bag time. Like you, I like to see my fish, the LFS employees/owners/other hobbiests and will pay in support of the LFS, but like many have had equal success with the online community. Sad but true, most of the best pieces and special fish are gobbled up by onliners before they even hit a sales oppurtunity for our LFS. Just some interesting info; Many online vendors of fish and corals and many of the same suppliers to our LFS all pull from the same trans ship wholesale spot in CA. Perfectly fine arrangement. You place an order, order is sent to dealer, it gets pooled and pulled from many spots, gets packed and shipped, often side by side with an order placed by our favorite LFS. Problem is, many large online vendors have a volume leg up for better selection. No different than the sweet stuff being set aside for favorite customers of the LFS. The biggest issue with GB's is pick up/oppurtunity for proper acclimation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrubberbandman January 7, 2007 Share January 7, 2007 How do you say this statement knowing nothing about the online vendor, what took place after reciept, or the condition of the new enviornment? READ NOTHING BETWEEN THE LINES Many online vendors offer handsome quarantees, some as long as 2 weeks. I know of no shop you'll walk into that will quarantee your fish to live until you get home.. If there is, announce yourself, you deserve the recognition. Oddly, a fish packed and shipped to you overnight will often spend less time in a bag than the fish might going to one of our LFS and both are packed in coolers w/heat if needed. GB's excluded from bag time. Like you, I like to see my fish, the LFS employees/owners/other hobbiests and will pay in support of the LFS, but like many have had equal success with the online community. Sad but true, most of the best pieces and special fish are gobbled up by onliners before they even hit a sales oppurtunity for our LFS. Just some interesting info; Many online vendors of fish and corals and many of the same suppliers to our LFS all pull from the same trans ship wholesale spot in CA. Perfectly fine arrangement. You place an order, order is sent to dealer, it gets pooled and pulled from many spots, gets packed and shipped, often side by side with an order placed by our favorite LFS. Problem is, many large online vendors have a volume leg up for better selection. No different than the sweet stuff being set aside for favorite customers of the LFS. The biggest issue with GB's is pick up/oppurtunity for proper acclimation. 5 thumbs up !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dzekunoi January 7, 2007 Share January 7, 2007 Chis, Do not forget your frags (in frag tank) might have ick on them now as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TROLL January 7, 2007 Share January 7, 2007 How do you say this statement knowing nothing about the online vendor, what took place after reciept, or the condition of the new enviornment? READ NOTHING BETWEEN THE LINES Many online vendors offer handsome quarantees, some as long as 2 weeks. I know of no shop you'll walk into that will quarantee your fish to live until you get home.. If there is, announce yourself, you deserve the recognition. I worked at NAIB before and I was in charge of accquistion- needless to say I've deal with many on-line business. Anyway, many would offer quaratine program but you cannot justify which vendors will do well from not seeing their faculty. During my time at NAIB, I've seen some fish coming in bad shape and had to contact the distrubutor and straighten the issue out. As for tangs and surgeonfish, they're very sensitive to stress and prone to disease so whenever someone order those fish, they should be aware of any possible outbreak. Shipping naturally contribute to stress and associated problems. Fishes from LFS, that's different story tho. They don't quaratine them at all, when the fish comes in- they place them in tank quickly. BTW, did you order the fish from liveaquaria.com? Based on many of my conversation with people buying from them- they seems to have history... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dzekunoi January 7, 2007 Share January 7, 2007 (edited) Does not matter where fish comes from. The only way to avoid troubles is to QT. Edited January 7, 2007 by dzekunoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeperofthefish January 7, 2007 Share January 7, 2007 Having suffered ich a few months ago (I, also, didn't QT before introducing), I recommend the following for a reef tank infested that you don't want to break down (your situation, now, having put these fish in your frag tank--unless you hypo ALL fish in your tank, and even then, there isn't a guarantee): 1) Feed very healthy food soaked in garlic. Feed a lot. Feed lots of nori to these tangs. Also use Selcon and Vita-Chem on alternative days. 2) Get a U/V sterilizer appropriate for your system and run it. The logic here is that if your fish are healthy (you're keeping them well fed, especially with foods that stimulate slime production and healing--garlic and vitamins) and you can zap the marine ick in its free-swimming phase, you're set. Johnny at BRK has great advice on what sterilizer and flow rate for your system will achieve this. Hypo is best, but many times unfeasible when you've infected a whole system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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