FishWife

It's not a cucumber after all! (Whew; I sure am glad.) Thanks for the responses just the same!

Okey doke: headed for home now to do just that. THANKS!

Hi, We got some great live rock last night from Justin, and when we were ooohing and ahhhing at it this morning, we saw what looks like a smushed cucumber on one of the rocks, and it looks like it's been there awhile, but there's also white mold growing on it. Justin had to dismantle his reef in a hurry (no fault of his own) and we are wondering: is there a PRESENT danger to the inverts on the rocks (and the damsel that we also found in one of the rocks unexpectedly so we threw in among them to help cycle in our holding tank) in terms of cucumber toxins? Do we need to rush home and take out this debris pronto, or can it wait until this evening... or should we just let nature take its course? We did remove the rocks from their original water and put them into fresh (three day old) water... so it was already dead when we got the rock into our holding tank... if that matters. (I just read that cucumbers when stressed emit a lethal chemical, so that's why I'm wondering. This from blue lagoon website: "Atlantic Sea Cucumbers are among the hardiest and most efficient cleaners in the Sea Cucumber family. Like all Sea Cucumbers however, they may admit a toxin when stressed which is harmful for all fish and invertebrates. To avoid this, make sure you are keeping fish that are safe for a reef tank and keep your water quality high.") I think the dead critter was a pink cucumber.

Wow, Brian! You don't know how helpful and encouraging that is. THANKS for taking the time to respond, and you probably WILL hear from us. We're going to go over to David's next week some time to view his multi-tank system as well and get real-life help. But, this link is great. THANKS again!

Question: can one add another clown fish of the same breed to a tank and expect them to pair up? I bought the most ADORABLE maroon clown (:::ducking::: I know, agressive) and it's just a baby (1" long or so). Can I add another maroon real soon and expect them to pair up or not?

OK; we are trying to make some final decisions on closed-loop construction. We have these specific questions, and are hoping to get some really specific answers. I don't know why they're so elusive, but I guess we've gotten several conflicting and generalized opinions... so, here goes! First, the set up. We have an 80 bow. It's fed by a remote sump/refugium through intake/outflow thru two drilled holes in the bottom of the tank, thru a wall, and in/out of our 75 g converted tank sump. In the sump is all the skimming plus RDSB, etc. but we're interested in adding closed loops (we think, maybe two) instead of traditional approach of using power heads in the display for water movement. This is our best guide of what we're aiming for so far: http://www.reef-eden.net/diy_6.htm. Like him, we want to go over the top of our tank and down to external pumps (not submerged); like him, we're not going to drill our bow 80 'cause we're not committed to it forever. We hope to step up in the foreseeable future. So, we're thinking two modest closed loops that cover the two halves of the tank that are interrupted by our back, internal, just off-center overflow box. Our questions: 1. Our first problem is, the author of reef-eden linked above is British, so all his pipe diameters are in mm's. Basically: what American-size diameter of pipes are best for going from the pump to the outlets in the bottom/sides of the tank? (The responses on this thread http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?show...;hl=closed+loop got us hopelessly lost...) PLEASE, please don't say "it depends on the pump" without giving us an example: like, please be more specific and say "a Mag 12 with 1" outlet pipes would give six outlets" or something. Brand names of pumps and direct links would help so much (hint!) 2. Talk to us about outlets, and how to figure how many and where to put them. We have a Mag 24 (thanks to Jason). If we use 1" PVC going down into the tank and under the sand, how many outlets can we use in the tank? In other words, how do you figure the strength of the flow of water thru the pipes and out the jets? And, are the first outlets going to be stronger than the latter ones in any run, or does stepping down a size in the outlets (from, say, 1" run to a 3/4" 45 elbow outlet) mean that the pipe fills up and jets them all out equally? OR, should we ding the Mag 24 as a closed loop pump and go to something else? If so, why--specifically-- and what -- specifically-- would you suggest, pretty please? 3. We have a 25 watt UV sterilizer (thanks to WAMAS members' advice) that allows us to put 1200 gph flow through it and still kill parasites and bacteria. We own an 800 gph pump. Can we use this pump and this sterilizer and create our second closed loop? Is 800 too slow? We know it would be the smaller of the two loops, but does it make sense to integrate our UV sterilizer, since we have to have a pump anyways for it? TIA for wading thru this lengthy post. We're hoping to get on with the tank SOON... if we can find our way... but are thinking maybe of bagging the whole closed loop thing and going to powerheads after all...

Thanks for your thoughts... do Coral Beauties eat tridacnia clam membranes? I thought I read that somewhere. Anyone with experience on this question? Someone suggested waiting the clown pair for the anemone... any thoughts? We also looked at getting some Chronis green damsels... any thoughts? How many fish can we put into an 80 bow, anyways? 1" per gallon as with fresh water?

We are in a quandry. We have started our refugium (which is large: converted 75 gallon as the heart of a BIG multi-tank system to be) and have 25 lbs of seasoned live rocks and some Cheato in there now, cycling. We put a dead prawn in there to decompose and supply some nitrates, and have a friend who is away for a month and plan to take NO3 water from his tank, sterilize it with our new UV sterilizer, and then add it to our refugium to feed the system. Meanwhile, we also have our QT tank up and running... The question is: what is a good "first fish" to begin quarentining while we bring our 80 bow up to speed? (We want to build closed loops, fix up the lights, etc. About 4 weeks' worth of work for us at our speed and budget, but we can be quarentining a fish meanwhile.) We know we eventually want (for fish): *Clown pair (vascillating between Ocellaris clownfish and yellow-striped maroon ones) *Bubble-tip anemone (quadricolor) rose or green *Coral beauty... or flame angel *Yellow or Natulus Tang (or four) and maybe down the road, a blennie and/or drangonet. We hope to SOMEDAY keep various corals and tridacnia clams in this bow 80. This bow 80 *is* primarily to be a reef tank so we don't need a huge number of fish; our other big tank that we hope to add to the system later will be fish-focused, with a few small, hardy corals and/or anemones. Now... what are we missing, and which to get FIRST? Do anemones need an older, more established tank? We've gotten advice in the past to get the anemone before getting the clownfish, but we're hoping to go to the social... could we get all three at once and quarentine them together? Hmmmm. Thoughts?

SO sorry... but what does SCWD stand for?

Ahem, yes. Jason, when should we plan to pick up the lights, etc.? Right now we have them under a PC. Also, we know about the worms and critters; that's what we're doing right now. Stocking the refugium with critters while we plumb closed loops on our bow 80. QUESTION for you all: how do microcrustacians and shrimp larvae, etc. get to the refugium to start populating it? On rocks, too? Treesprite: thanks! We are fascinated. Can't remember having this much fun since we first had kids... 27 years ago... sigh. But then, our first granddaughter is due Nov. 8, so the tank better enjoy the attention while it has it!

Cool... would three PCs be "decent" enough for a week or so?

Last night we got some great live rock from Hung for a very new tank and it has some lovely Zoanthids (yellow, I think they are parazoanthus gracillis). Since our tank is new, what can we do to keep them alive, food wise? They are in a refugium with sand, some cheato (two weeks old) and low flow and low light... ? The water has been aerating and heated, etc. for days... the sand is all settled, but sterile. Also on the rocks is a mushroom and some kind of leafy coral... gray/blue... looks like small Romaine lettuce leafs. Any way we can keep these guys alive as our tank cycles and matures?

Just fyi: it's a bow 80 (4' long X 12"-18" deep X 23 tall) reef tank we're now mounting.... with dreams of someday upgrading to a 220 (like, in 3 years or so: we have the wall space, but not the budget. I'm sure no one can relate, right? ). These clowns/anemone would move as we grew (if we do) but need to be happy in the bow 80 forever, potentially.

We want a clown fish pair as our first priority in our reef tank (fish wise) and a host anemone. From what I'm reading, the easiest anemone to keep is the bubble tip, and will host both maroon and ocellaris. I like maroon yellow stripes so much better aesthetically. I know: more agressive. But, we're going to have two tanks eventually: reef and fish-only. So, I won't need to stock a lot of fish in my reef tank. I'm thinking of one tang to keep the algae down, maybe a coral beauty, and the clowns. What do you all think? NO maroons whatsoever? Or, is it personal preference? And, if I did the maroon clowns, etc. that I've said, what else could go with these? Banded shrimp? (I want tridaclea clams someday...)

That looks just great; and I found one on a 30% off sale! Now... true unions, or should we just use threaded joins at key places? Our real desire here is to be able to disassemble our closed loops in later days when pumps fail or things get clogged over time. Maybe, therefore, unions aren't the answer so much as threaded PVC joins at key places, using teflon tape? Am I right that they can then be unscrewed later? Teflon tape isn't permanent, like cement, right? (Yes, I'm a newbie!)

Hi, all: 1. Where can we buy true unions to use on closed loops (1/2" PVC)? How about true unions with ball valves? 2. In designing closed loops (we're thinking of four; two each teed off of two pumps) we want to incoporate a UV sterilizer into one of the four lines. (If we have an 80 gallon display, we think we want a total of 200 gal/hr turnover in each loop, so we plan to use two 400 gph pumps for these loops.) Sterilizers are a mystery to us in terms of knowing what to favor in features. (Remember, we are low budget, so please don't suggest ultimates!) Can anyone link us to a specific UV sterilizer they like AND tell us how to incorporate it into our closed loop system, flow wise? TIA!

I am on a really limited start-up budget. I had thought to buy purified water, but $1.00/gal for distilled is causing my gag reflex to act up. Our NO3 is tolerable; dissolved solids are the problem though... right? Which ones? So, I started looking at water purifiers... and am confused, hopelessly. 1. I know that many reefers use ionizers. Do I NEED one? 2. I'm afraid of exactly WHAT in tap water... specifically? 3. Got any short term work arounds so I can build up cash for an under-sink ionizer/purifier? 4. While we're at it, what is your pick for the best ionizer/purifier out there--not all the bells and whistles, but a good, basic workhorse for this problem?

So... water comes thru your UV to your skimmer? First from the display? We have a 75 gallon (converted tank) sump that we're starting up, and plan to put it on the floor (behind a wall, so, effectively right next to the tank at floor level). The display is a drilled bow 80, so we plan a simple loop that starts with gravity (not a pump) to three compartments of the 75 tank to include: first the skimmer -- then the fuge -- bubble trap -- to a return compartment, where a pump returns water (and plankton) to the display. If we take water from the (first) skimmer compartment via a pump, run it thru the UV, and thence to the fuge (section 2 of the 75, then allow slower flow thru the bubble trap and into the overflow/pump back to the 80 bow display, is that ok? Another thing I'm curious about: in a closed system like a fuge/display, where do parasites enter, anyways? Is UV before the fuge as good as after, or do Cheato/sand breed bad stuff? (In this question, I'm assuming correct quarentine, so let's not get off on that, unless we're going to say that all we need do is UV the QT, and be done with UV for the whole system?) ALSO, while I'm at it... does a UV filter break a closed loop (as does a skimmer, for instance) or is balanced siphon maintained?

1. If we put a UV inline after our refugium, won't it kill the plankton/good critters that I'm trying to cultivate there?? 2. If so, is it better to put it on a closed loop? TIA for comments.

Doug... how would we "get them off"? That's kind of my question, in a way. I like the idea that Jason puts forward... parasites and dangerous stuff will die without hosts... right? (We are talking about ROCK and SAND from reefer tanks, not from the LFS... what's the functional difference, though, one asks oneself. Is LFS water any safer, really? I always see distressed livestock there, and it's all one water system, unless they quarentine the rock they're curing/selling. Thoughts?)

I am REALLY enjoying my contacts with local reef geeks a lot! You all have been so great. My start-up question for the day is this: since people are selling stuff like live rocks and sand to us out of their tanks (after breakdown) do we need to quarentine rocks and sand? We have a refugium that is large enough, and a display bow that is empty. Should we consider putting sand and rock into the refugium and not connecting the two for a month, or can we just go ahead and put live rock and sand into our display? How would we know if there WERE parasites anyways, given no fish or other macro animals? What are the pros and cons on this? TIA, as always, for your time.

LOL. We are planning a big, multi-tank system. To that end, though I only have currently a display of a bow 80, we have cannibalized our 75 gallon tank (old one) as our sump. We've just baffled it, and it came out with a 26" X 17.5" fuge. Note that it's not THAT much sand: we're talking 90 lbs. /cu. ft. according to ReefCentral's calculator... So, 1.75 cu. ft. or so of sand; about the amount in a 75 gal aquarium with 3"-4" bed. We wanted an adequate sand bed to eventually handle about 300 gallons of display (between two tank locations we plan in the future, all on one water system. Suffice it to say, we think it's the right size for the future... question is: are there any REAL problems with non-aragonite? TIA!

Thanks, guys: but I'm thinking about my REFUGIUM, not my tank. Am putting in a RDSB. I want to denitrify, but also hear about problems like these: 1. Presence/introduction of diatoms in silica sands (Home Depot garden variety sand) 2. Packing down of HD (Home Depot) sand renders it ineffective. 3. There's no buffering/calcium advantage to non-argonite sands. Anyone got ideas on those topics FOR MY REFUGIUM? (Not shouting; just clarifying! ) TIA!

We are about to stock our refugium and the sand calc. tool says we need 142 lbs. for our 6" deep sand bed. CAN we or can't we use Home Depot sand? If not, why not... I know, diatoms, right? Those aside, how hard can it be to buffer as needed if using HD sand and not aragonite? Are packing issues real, or are they real or boggeymen? (AND, could you please speak from experience (not theory) as much as possible on this one? We have a REALLY limited budget, and I'd rather buy live rock for the display than expensive sand)

How would one of these compare (functionally) with this? DIY Faucet Filter