Newbie Questions About Small Tank

[Guest tastybeans]

I have never had a saltwater aquarium before, but I've always loved the anemone, coral, crabs, etc. The fish are neat too, but if I were interested primarily in fish, I'd have a freshwater aquarium since they're so much easier. Here's my idea: I'd like to get a small tank, under 30 gallons to have a few anemone, hermit crabs, maybe a fish or two. I've read some articles talking about small tanks, I just wanted to get some opinions about the feasibility of my idea, whether there are some seriously tough species I could start with that tolerate less than ideal situations. I frankly don't have the space (not to mention money) for anything much larger, but I also don't want to get a tiny tank that becomes Auschwitz for reef critters. Is this a good way to get started? I've read a lot of posts suggesting people start with 55 gallon tanks or above (I have one at my parents house I could use), but I just don't have the space for the kind of setup and probably won't in the coming years. Any advice or suggestions would be great.

[squiddly]

I'm new too, but I can tell you some of my experiences. I have an aquapod 24, which is a 24 gallon cube tank that I started with some live sand, some live rock, some clownfish, a "cleanup crew" which consisted of some hermit crabs, 2 peppermint shrimp and some snails, and the metal halide optional lighting. I started things up without having the benefit of all of these people in this club, so I made some mistakes (as I'm sure many do.) I also have a larger, 120 gallon tank. Here are my observations, in hopes that you can learn something from them. I sure have :-).

 

1) Bigger is easier. Water parameters can change much more quickly in the small tank than the large tank. I've found it much more important to keep on top of the testing in that tank, and make corrections immediately with water changes.

 

2) Use RO water. My water is very very hard, and although it didn't have any naughty chemicals in it (it's well water) there was lots of stuff in it that gave me alkalinity headaches. Your water might be better, but it's a good idea to use the RO.

 

3) Not all coral frags are created equally. Some truly are easy and for beginners, but just because they're cheap doesn't mean they're hearty.

 

4) The quintiscential scene of the anemone and two clownfish just isn't practical for a new tank. You really do have to let the tank truly settle down and get some good growth in there before an anemone, else it might roam as mine did and eventually commit suicide in a powerhead, or just wither and die.

 

5) If cost is a real object, be very very careful. There are many unexpected emergency type costs that likely will arise where you must spend the extra money, or gamble with the lives of your critters. I spent the first few weeks running to the local fish shops with issue after issue that took more and more money to solve. Make sure you budget those things in, since the cost is not just tank and critters.

 

6) Don't get "new tank syndrome" and cut corners in cycling or in getting anxious and adding many creatures all at once. I put in too many clownfish and one of them was basically harrassed to death. That's something that really needn't have happened. If I had been more patient and asked more advice, I would only have had 2 clownfish in the tank.

 

7) Pay attention when they tell you that a particular fish is aggressive. I had to move a hawkfish out of my tank because he was continually harassing a gobi.

 

8) Check the links page, and listen to the people at the local fish shops listed there. Ask their opinion before buying a critter. Tell them what you already have. I've been talked out of many critters that would not have been very good with my setup.

 

I'm sure everyone else has many more suggestions for you, and much more experience, but that's a summary of the things I've found so far. Good luck! I've had a lot of fun in my few months as a hobbyist. I'm looking forward to a lot more.

[dbartco]

First, welcome!

 

Second. A small tank is not necessarily harder than a large tank, it just takes a bit more attention to detail I'd say. Parameters such as salinity, temp, etc.. can swing from extremes much faster in smaller tank than a larger one, which gives more of a buffer. Lighting must be considered to avoid overheating etc.. A smaller tank can also limit responsible livestock selection. But, as long as these things are covered, there is no reason not to jump right in.

 

Tanks. Most reefers agree that the wider the tank the better for corals etc. A 55 gal cube preferred over an 55 gal long.

 

Lastly, I would say if you are interested in starting a marine tank, join up as a full member as equipment and livestock are readily available in the for sale section, as well as many free frags. And ask as many questions as you'd like. You made the first step already by posting, it is all easy from here!

[squiddly]

Lighting must be considered to avoid overheating etc..

 

I knew I forgot to mention something :-). The sunpod on my aquapod makes it quite warm in the tank. My tank temperature winds up between 79 and 80 because of that. I'm sure it would be a lot warmer if I didn't have AC. I put an aquatek fan on it, but it died after about 3 weeks, so I've raised the heater temp so that things wouldn't fluctuate too badly.

 

I might have chosen the other lights if I'd known this, and then chosen corals that would correspond with that kind of lighting. I'm learning that there are plenty of corals that do just fine with the lower light. Makes the lights cheaper too :-).

 

I'm having so much fun I'm surprised they haven't made this illegal :-).

[Guest tastybeans]

Thanks for all the tips! God, the water stabilization sounds like such a headache! Questions:

 

What are easy things to take care of? Damsels, hermit crabs, cleaner shrimp I've read about. Anything else you'd offer as interesting and safe and easy? I want tough things, practially invasive, that can suffer through my trial and error.

 

I don't use the AC in my apartment. It can get in the nineties during the day in the summer. Will a fan keep the tank in the mid to low eighties? Is slight temperature fluctation of water from day to night a bad thing? Would I need a chiller? What critters are more durable when it comes to temperature?

 

Fish sound like they create more problems (urine) for the water than other things in the tank. Does having less fish in a system make it easier? Per my OP, I am more interested in invertebrates than fish. A clown fish or two would be cute. Yes I did like Finding Nemo. No, that is not why I want a tank.

 

In keeping with the small tank I want, what size or shape would someone recommend? I've read articles that make me think a 20 something gallon tank would have plenty of room for above mentioned invertebrates and perhaps two clownfish. What other fish might I eventually consider for such a small system?

[HowardofNOVA]

First Welcome aboard!

Where are you located? I live in Falls Church and your more than welcome to stop over to see my tank, I'm setting up a new 90g and everything is everywhere, but would be able to spend an hour with you to show you how to get started.

 

Actually, see post coming up soon for next Sunday!

 

Aquarium maintenance today is 1000x better than years past and I'm sure will get even more easier!

 

Temperature, YES, this is a big issue, fans will do alot blowing on sump or tanks to keep cool, but if your turning off you AC when you leave your apartment to go to work, headaches can and probably will be forthcoming with temperatures rising into the 90's!

Are you in an apartment or house with a basement? Keep the tank away from windows where sunlight will cook the fish!

 

Tank, 55g tank you say you have would be an excellent choice for starters as others have mentioned because the more water your working with (in reason) the better buffering you will have. Loose a gallon of water to evaporation in a 55 is only 1/55th a problem vs. 10% on a 10g tank! Understand?

What kind of room do you have to work with? A 30g tank might be a good comprimise if you have the room?

 

Inhabitants, Concerning Nemo and the Anenome, Clownfish are fine in a small tank, but an Anenome would be best left for another day DOWN the road! They don't need an Anenome to survive. A small tank with only 1 or 2 small fish would be cool with crabs and a few snails to get started and then with experience possibly add a Mushroom, Zooanthid or Leather Corals slowly into the tank would be great to start with and LEARN the hobby! Plus, won't break the bank!! :D

[Guest tastybeans]

Thanks again for the tips and set viewing offerings. I live in Mt. Pleasant (DC). Actually, I'm going camping this Saturday for a WEEK+, hallelujah. I'm going to Barnes and Noble and picking up a book to read in the sticks (though with all the articles I've read, I don't know what it's going to have that I haven't seen discussed in detail already). I'd love to see a small tank setup. I've read that some people don't use skimmers, and I want to keep things as simple as possible with regard to filtration, etc. No anemone, got it. The simple corals are what I really want to grow, nothing fancy (yet). I live in a very sunny apartment (plants are much more fully realized obsession) and so would actually have to move the tank twice a year to keep it out of the sun's track from winter to summer. The 55 gallon deal would occupy an unacceptable percentage of my apartment. That's why I'm thinking twenty/thirty gallons. Plus, the set up for the fifty gallon looks terrifying to me. I always hated the second aquarium beneath the real tank used for filtration. And the lighting seems a lot more complicated and expensive the bigger your tank, right? Also, as an apartment dweller who might move the unit would need to be relatively portable.

 

One last question: I understand the importance of fish per gallon. Is there a similar rule for corals, or can I eventually pretty much cram as many in as there's physical space for?

[dbartco]

Just borrow a book. There are a few in DC that have something. I'm not sure what B&N has, but don't get the "for Dummies" book if you do.

 

If you can't find someone, the one's I have seen that are pretty good for into:

 

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...87524&itm=8

 

or

 

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...87005&itm=9

 

or

 

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...1176&itm=15

 

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...7029&itm=14

 

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...5723&itm=51

[Charlie97L]

the only thing i'd add to the already great info, is don't put a damsel (blue/domino/bicolor) whatever, in your tank. green chromis and clownfish are the same family, and much less aggressive. the damsel, if the only occupant, will claim the entire tank as his doman, and become very aggressive towards anything else you put in. a good starter fish is a goby, some of them are jumpers, though, so watch out. think your fish choices over VERY carefully. i had (initially) a sixline wrasse and chromis, and i opted to take them out, they were harassing my goby, and i had to disassemble the whole tank to do so!

 

welcome! (btw)

[squiddly]

Ugh. I had to do the same thing to catch a hawkfish. But what goes around comes around sometimes. He went to chase the yellow watchman gobi and the gobi turned around and went after HIM instead. He leaves the gobi alone now.

[Guest tastybeans]

I've been looking around and reading the last two days, and am leaning toward a 12 gallon Aquapod, since they seem rather self-contained, and I've seen some amazing setups on nano-reef.com. It seems a lot of people do start small, and the pictures I've seen are pretty much what I've had in mind (lots of easier to grow soft corals - buttons, mushrooms, etc along with a few crabs and maybe a feather duster or seaweed clump). Two questions:

 

Is an Auqapod the way to go? I've read about Eclipses, but also read some negative reviews. Plus, the Aquapod comes with a simple built-in skimmer I've read.

 

What's the best way to get coral frags after I get started? Since it's such a small system, I figure getting 'cuttings' would be cost-effective and more interesting than buying from the LFS. What about mail orders? Are those a good way to go?

 

 

 

Oh yeah, thanks for the book tips, dbartco! I used a GC to buy the nano reef guide used online, and picked up an $8 guide to cultivating corals that might be worthless, but it was only $8.

Edited August 31, 2006 by tastybeans

[rrubberbandman]

tasty,

i have a 20 gallon high tank......with live rock and 3 inch sand bed......i currently have 2 firefish a sixline wrasse, rainfords goby...and my yasha hase goby shrimp combo.....i have about 20 mixed algae eating snails....10-15 hermits....25 baby nassarius snails and 3 emerald crabs...and a fireshrimp.

all of my plumbing /filtration is hang on back stuff......my water parameters are easy to maintain now that i got my salinity in check due to the "pos" hydrometer.

my nitrates are kept in check by bi-weekly water changes......and by starving my fish ...just kidding...i feed every 3 days....anything they miss surely gets gobbled up by the cleaners.

temperatures are not really a problem since you realy wouldnt use halides over this type of tank..my opinion of course.

hth,

Bryan

[dbartco]

 

What's the best way to get coral frags after I get started? Since it's such a small system, I figure getting 'cuttings' would be cost-effective and more interesting than buying from the LFS. What about mail orders? Are those a good way to go?

 

Best way to get frags? Join as a full fledged member and come to a meeting. I, and so many others here are more than willing to donate or sell for cheap. But I'm mean, I like to donate to members... :wink:

[jason the filter freak]

it's well worth to join as a member, you can ask as many dumb questions as you'd like and almost not annoy anyone (these people are GREAT!), I had a 25 for a while and found I couldn't handle it, but I also wasn't keeping up on water changes like I should have, so if I've learned four things after joinging this club are:

 

1. It was well worth joining

2. Use RODI water/Keep up on water changes

3. Don't overstock

4. Olny bad things happen fast in marine aquariums, paticence is key (I'm still trying to learn this, but I'm in a hurry )

Edited September 8, 2006 by jason the filter freak

[HowardofNOVA]

Welcome to the forum again!

Dittos what others have said about the membership! Too small of an investment for the huge return it can bring you!

I had a 30g tank for quite a while when I started and appreciate the extra play area to work with!

I'm a big fan of the 12g and 24g complete Nano Setups that are for sale, just purchase the newer models if you do. They seem to have the bugs worked out from the earlier units!

Meeting coming up soon 14Oct and 18Nov at Baltimore Aquarium and I have a NEWBIE 101 Forum at my house this Sunday 6-8pm and Tank Tour. Would be a good chance to see a tank (though 90g) being setup for "Cheaper" corals.