Sugar Magnolia July 10, 2007 Share July 10, 2007 (edited) Well that just sucks. Do you have one of those really long levels? You could use your belt sander and check for level every so often to try to fix it. (Just a thought, but what do I know, I don't do woodworking) I have to ask, why didn't you just set the tank on the floor rather than up on that folding table? When I saw that shot with the cat on top of th stand I cringed. Seems like the slightest movement could make that tank come crashing to the ground. YIKES!! Still building in your flip flops...I seem to recall a bandaged toe a while back. Edited July 10, 2007 by Sugar Magnolia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 July 10, 2007 Author Share July 10, 2007 Oh, and one more option is to simply remove the screws holding the top together and take a saw and cut in between each joint to allow some flex and then put it back on top. I don't think any of these are going anywhere as they're attached to the top, regardless of whether they are screwed to each other or not. Well that just sucks. Do you have one of those really long levels? You could use your belt sander and check for level every so often to try to fix it. (Just a thought, but what do I know, I don't do woodworking) I have to ask, why didn't you just set the tank on the floor rather than up on that folding table? When I saw that shot with the cat on top of th stand I cringed. Seems like the slightest movement could make that tank come crashing to the ground. YIKES!! Still building in your flip flops...I seem to recall a bandaged toe a while back. The concrete floor is uneven whereas the carpet before accounted for the small uneven places in the floor. The table is an older one so it's much more solid than the ones that are sold today (also much heavier!). I do have a long level but when I used it in the driveway it was useless (my driveway is very uneven from parking on it) except to show me that end to end and side to side it was even. That's why I think the weather may have contributed to the warping... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 July 12, 2007 Author Share July 12, 2007 OK, I tried the foam beneath but it either compresses too much or doesn't compress enough so I'm going to shim it. Laying the level on top, it's very close to being perfect across so I'm going to simply shim and be done with it. On a side note, I'll be adding 6 small pacific blue tangs to the mix in the large reef when it's set up. They look awesome so far in the 50 gallon tray but they are itching to become part of the large system, more motivation to finish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tgallo July 12, 2007 Share July 12, 2007 shim it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRehman July 12, 2007 Share July 12, 2007 Ditto...shim the bunker (oops..stand). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 July 13, 2007 Author Share July 13, 2007 Done! Shimmed the heck out of it and then used some joiners to hold it together along with 2 T bars at the center of each end. It's shimmed and the glue holding the foam on top is drying and then the tank goes onto the stand and moved into position so I can make sure it's level on the floor. I'll try and take a picture when it's all done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 July 13, 2007 Author Share July 13, 2007 OK, despite my best efforts, turns out the top is actually warped... I put the tank on there tonight (it's easy to move if you can slide it which I did) and there's enough space between the front left and rear right corners where I am not comfortable filling it with water to smoosh down the foam. SO, I am going to rely on my old fall back, Great Stuff, and fill it in beneath the tank. For those not familiar with this product it is liquid foam that you can use to patch holes and create models amongst other things. It expands when it is released from the pressurized container and eventually dries and hardens a bit. It never really becomes hard but will definitely serve the purpose of evening out the area on top of the foam. This will allow the tank to settle onto the foam without stressing the seams and will let the foam do its job without cracking the tank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 July 13, 2007 Share July 13, 2007 Dave, my guess is that it is all of those legs that are not the same length rather than the top being warped. This looks high centered. Take the top off and cut some off the middle legs. Over cut them and shim the ones in the center to make it flat across the plane from end to end. Shim under the whole stand to make it level. More work sure but, you built a super sturdy stand, don't compromise your seams by relying on Great Stuff, it's not that Great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal July 13, 2007 Share July 13, 2007 (edited) I'm with Dan on this one (like his woodworking opinions are ever in question!). >>Bunch of rambling thoughts, ideas and suggestions deleted<< Dave, I'd hate to see you put all the work into this and have the seams on your tank give out later. Maybe a third set of eyes and a workshop full of powertools would be a good idea at this point. I'm off Friday and will send my phone number to you via PM. Give me a call and let's see if we can come up with a good solution to the problem. Edited July 13, 2007 by YBeNormal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 July 13, 2007 Author Share July 13, 2007 I actually did all the shimming first and then saw that the tank was rocking on the platform itself so the top was not even. Could be that I didn't do a fantastic job on the top itself, but from the shimming and the mashing down I did of the top the stand was high in the corners on the platform only. I ended up adding a bunch of great stuff underneath the tank on top of the foam to give it more support so that when I do the test fill it settles evenly rather than puts pressure on the corners as it pushes down on the foam. Basically I've added foam to the underside of the tank in order to level the top off. I thought that the legs might be uneven but when I checked them they were the same length and as far as I could tell with the level they were straight across. I shimmed each part of each leg separately so there's about 5 packages of the pre-cut shims that I used... could've probably made my job easier by actually making my own shims but I didn't want to cut in the basement any more and get the tile all dusty... I'll take a picture and show you what I did and see what your thoughts are. Hopefully you'll agree that it's a solid base now and the only worry is getting the stand successfully leveled on the floor (looks to be off by about a few degrees forward right now based on the position on the floor and the level). Bob - thanks for the offer, I sent you a PM back. I actually use my many projects around the house as excuses to get more power tools all of the time. If you do have some time, I can't do anything tomorrow as we're hosting a neighborhood BBQ but I'd love for you to come by and give me your opinions on the stand and how I intend on plumbing the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRehman July 13, 2007 Share July 13, 2007 Dan, Good observation and idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC July 13, 2007 Share July 13, 2007 It might be an optical illusion, I thought so too at first, but the top is clearly twisted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 July 15, 2007 Author Share July 15, 2007 Ugh... now the foam is curling back from the plywood. I am thinking I need to scrap the current top and remake the thing. Anyone in for some carpentry some time this week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRehman July 15, 2007 Share July 15, 2007 (edited) Dave, Just design it like a house. Four stud walls. Then put a ceiling with rafters (stud wall laid flat). Then just screw (& glue) the five components together. Plywood on the top. Plywood base if you want. Internal bracing with plywood strips from end to end. You're done. Effectively got my stand built in an evening. Edited July 15, 2007 by NRehman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman91 July 16, 2007 Share July 16, 2007 you might want to take all the screws out of the top section, assemble it on the stand and then screw everything back together. most of the time when working with lumber from home depot or lowes , all of the boards have a slight warp to them, and when you assemble the frame,the whole thing will be off in one corner by 1/2 an inch or so. it also helps to check your miter saw to make sure you blade if perfectly perpendicular to the cutting surface, even if it's off by 1 or 2 degrees, the whole stand will be out of whack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 July 16, 2007 Author Share July 16, 2007 you might want to take all the screws out of the top section, assemble it on the stand and then screw everything back together. most of the time when working with lumber from home depot or lowes , all of the boards have a slight warp to them, and when you assemble the frame,the whole thing will be off in one corner by 1/2 an inch or so. it also helps to check your miter saw to make sure you blade if perfectly perpendicular to the cutting surface, even if it's off by 1 or 2 degrees, the whole stand will be out of whack. I did double check the mitre saw and although it is measuring at 90 degrees to the cutting surface I'm not so sure that it is. Next step is to check my right angle! Maybe that's why I can't build straight things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 July 16, 2007 Share July 16, 2007 Well if you really think the top is twisted and causing the unevenness, I would take it off and screw another piece of ply to the underside of the top, that will pull it back to plane if you use enough screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman91 July 16, 2007 Share July 16, 2007 I did double check the mitre saw and although it is measuring at 90 degrees to the cutting surface I'm not so sure that it is. Next step is to check my right angle! Maybe that's why I can't build straight things! speed square or framing square, the carpenter's best friend. $5 well spent and tons of time saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw July 16, 2007 Share July 16, 2007 I did double check the mitre saw and although it is measuring at 90 degrees to the cutting surface I'm not so sure that it is. Next step is to check my right angle! Maybe that's why I can't build straight things! Dave - I bought a Mitre saw and had the same problem. It says its cutting the correct angle but it was a bit off. Take it to a tool dealer and have then set it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 July 25, 2007 Author Share July 25, 2007 OK, so I decided that I'm going to fill the tank about 15% of the way up, just below the bulkheads, and see how much it settles out. I figure this is not enough to stress the seams and if it settles out, I'm good to go. I had a neighbor who does a lot of building come by and take a look and his suggestion was just to add a little bit more great stuff to where the foam has peeled away a bit and let the compression do its job. On another note, I should have my bulbs by Friday and so I'm going to look into whatever other plumbing parts I need and then hook it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab July 27, 2007 Share July 27, 2007 If I understand what I've read above, it sounds like your tank sits on your stand in such a way that it appears that the stand has a hump somewhere between the ends of the tank. Is that correct? If that is a correct interpretation then if you rock tank on the hump so that one end of the tank is flat to the stand, how high above the stand is the bottom of the other end of the tank? That distance, however small determines the stress you will put on the glass and the seams as the weight of the tank's contents tries to bend the tank to conform to the stand's surface. This also presumes there is only one high spot that you are dealing with. fab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal July 27, 2007 Share July 27, 2007 (edited) If I understand what I've read above, it sounds like your tank sits on your stand in such a way that it appears that the stand has a hump somewhere between the ends of the tank. Is that correct? If that is a correct interpretation then if you rock tank on the hump so that one end of the tank is flat to the stand, how high above the stand is the bottom of the other end of the tank? That distance, however small determines the stress you will put on the glass and the seams as the weight of the tank's contents tries to bend the tank to conform to the stand's surface. This also presumes there is only one high spot that you are dealing with. fab I used the straight edge of a long metal ruler to check my stand and had the same situation - slight high spot in the center. It was only about the thickness of 2 credit cards so it probably wouldn't have been that big of a deal, and the foam pad I used most likely would have taken care of it, but I wanted to be sure. I used a belt sander on the plywood top to take down the high spot so that no matter what way I put the straight edge I couldn't slide even 1 credit card under it. I remember being tempted not to spend the extra time on it after I thought I was finally done, but it was well worth it IMO. One less thing to worry about. Edited July 27, 2007 by Rascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab July 27, 2007 Share July 27, 2007 Glass or acrylic? If glass, 1.) two credit cards of gap in the middle is a lot. 2.) one credit card of gap is still possibly too much. The tank has to bend and warp to make up the difference. That ends up putting a constant directional static load on the glue joints that adds to the forces when the tank is loaded. Unfortunately these forces produce bending moments that are trying to break the bottom. A great way to help mitigate any final minor irregularities in the stand surface is to use a layer of 1/2" thick homosote board between the plywood and the tank. If you really want to, you can put your foam pad on top of the homosote. Homosote is cheap at home depot and is extremely easy to cut to shape with a saw, best to use a circular saw of some kind. fab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 July 27, 2007 Author Share July 27, 2007 I tried to find homasote and didn't end up finding much out about it, other than there's a company that makes a bunch of different products with it. Any pictures or links that you could point out to me? On another note, got my bulbs today. I'm running Helios 400W 20,000K SE bulbs on a 400W PFO HQI ballast through Lumenarc 3 reflectors. Question of the day is: do I use the UV shield for these or do I skip the shield? I am not sure where I will be mounting these yet and the amount of salt spray and creep I will be getting so the question is really whether these bulbs put out too much UV or if they're OK to use without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab July 27, 2007 Share July 27, 2007 with an "o" http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=homosote with an "a" http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=homasote Home Depot: Alexandria #4603 400 S Pickett St Alexandria, VA 22304 (703)823-1900 Homosote in stock in lumber department, 4x8 sheets 1/2" thick (gray looks like compressed paper ) Took 3 minutes to get this info, including phone call to lumber department. Hope it helps, good luck. It's great stuff. If you ever want a dart board, this is the best stuff there is for a backerboard. Just cover a 3x4 piece with indoor outdoor carpeting with a low nap. You can use contact cement to do it. Fabulous dart board backer. Also makes a great work surface for a lot of projects. Cheap, disposable after a while. fab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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