Durso's

[mutley29]

I would like some advice from the Durso users out there

 

Is there a maximum size pipe that should be used from the bulkhead to the sump, my return pump is a Ampmaster 2100.

 

Both my returns are plumbed seperately to the sump

 

I'm a drilled tank noob any tips or pointers on tuning Durso's in ?

 

Just seems frustrating reading the replies posted in the Durso website from people who just put the bits together and throw it in the tank and they run perfectly.

 

The only thing i can think of is my return lines are too big, i had a job lot of 1 1/2" left from a plumbing job in the house and used that, i know i know, i should have thought it through, patience is a virtue in this hobby and it's something i could do with more of.

 

Any all help appreciated :77:

 

Anton

[BeltwayBandit]

I use 1.5" pipe on my returns without a problem. The only problem I had was that I had to put some elbows in. My original design was straight piped and that made an impressive waterfall. I would suggest, if you can taking the cap off of the top of the Durso and let it run. Yes it will be noisy, but that way you can see if it will work properly w/max air flow. (Basically a capacity test to make sure you aren't overdriving it with your return pump. If that is successful make a small hole and put the cap back on. Keep enlarging the hole until your flow settles out. It is a bit hit or miss and can be a pain. I have found the plug and play types are generally people who aren't pushing a ton of flow through the Durso. It is when you get up to the higher flow rates that the airflow becomes an issue.

[JMsAquarium]

Basically, in a nutshell, assuming your return and overflow pipes are of the matching size of the bulkheads, the flow in ghp is dictated by the inside diameter of the bulheads.

 

Example:

 

the bulkheads on my overflows are 1" and thus can handle an average of 600 gph each. Which means that both combined can handle a max abverage flow of 1200 gph going to the sump, right?

 

My return bulheads are of 3/4" diameter each, which means a lesser flow than the above. I am running a Mag 18, which is 1800 gph, but giving the restriction at the bulhead, less than that passes through.

 

If you are concerned by your return flow being higher than the overflow to the sump, you can do the following.

Put either a ball valve or gate valve at the outflow of your Ampmaster and play with it by opening it a little bit at the time until you are satisfied with both flows. I would start opening the valve til it seems that water will spill over the rim of the tank (if any). From there, I will close it a tad at a time and visually check the water level at the top of the tank.

 

Hope it makes sense

 

Anton

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[ErikS]

Ah grasshopper......listen & you shall hear the tale of the Durso/stockman........

 

The single best improvment you can make to the either device is to take the cap (the end cap above the "bell") put on the pipe & drill 4 holes through the cap & the pipe. Once this is done you can now twist the cap to adjust the airflow - which is simple.

 

Open it up fully & then close it until the "sucking sound" is minimized, if the water starts surging then you've gone too far. Ideal/quietest is with minimum air & no surging.

 

(an improvement over holes is to make slots - this will give you finer control over the air).

 

 

If your return pump outpaces the overflow the optimum solution is to "T" off the return & allow the excess to return to the sump - better than a valve as it reduces the pressure on the pump extending its life.

[BeltwayBandit]

Ah grasshopper......listen & you shall hear the tale of the Durso/stockman........

 

The single best improvment you can make to the either device is to take the cap (the end cap above the "bell") put on the pipe & drill 4 holes through the cap & the pipe. Once this is done you can now twist the cap to adjust the airflow - which is simple.

 

Open it up fully & then close it until the "sucking sound" is minimized, if the water starts surging then you've gone too far. Ideal/quietest is with minimum air & no surging.

 

46639[/snapback]

 

Neat trick. I will have to remember that one.

[ErikS]

Neat trick. I will have to remember that one

Confession time - I know this because I spent 6 months trying every concievable trick to get my old tank quiet AND I never succeeded :wall:

 

I had air valves, multiple holes, floss, you name it I tried it

[mutley29]

Cheers Fella's

 

What a veritable cornucopia of information you are.

 

After taking on board your ideas and doing something else i love surfing in works time, i will try bleeding off some of the supply from my return pump back into the sump, (as i may have been kicking the arse out of the drains) it will eventually be plumbed into a frag tank on the other side of my tank/fish room as well as the suggestions here.

 

If i can get this sorted tonight i'll have substrate and rock work in tomorrow and start cycling by Thursday morning. WOOHOO

 

Thanks again guys

 

Anton

[stank]

In my opinion I would use a smaller return pump, something in the 1200gph range, you really dont need that much flow through your sump. If that is even a option for you however.

[fishface]

That's the main point really! Your flow within the tank is the most important area to consider. And if you intend to have macro in the sump or mud, you want very slow flow.

There's a chart that does show pipe diameters and their flow rates for you to refer to if you want.

 

But that's a great tank. Where'd you get it? Looks like glass cages. In the overflow glass

FF

P.S. JM's comment is a good one, I'm going to tee my flow off to improve pump life.

[JMsAquarium]

That's the main point really! Your flow within the tank is the most important area to consider. And if you intend to have macro in the sump or mud, you want very slow flow.

 

Indeed, and here is very interesting thread on RC by Anthony Calfo, on the effects of high water flows in sumps and skimming efficiency efficiency. Worth reading.

 

Link

[ErikS]

I'm on my third trip through that thread - it's excellent, another one that should go hand-in-hand with that one is:

 

Sump Flow - low?

[JMsAquarium]

Oh yeah that one is excellent too. I am really considering to switch to a small pump for the return and increasing flow in the main tank by other means.

 

That's my next project for the X-mas break.

[JMsAquarium]

Anton,

 

that sump looks neat

[ErikS]

Careful - it can get you hooked

 

I'm in there on page 5 - "using a GenX-4" for everything Now I can't wait to get that power hog off the system (even though with the headloss from the chiller it's pushing about 550gph through the overflow) - I want less!

 

Best part, electricity aside, is that low flow through the overflow is very easy to make quiet.

[JMsAquarium]

No kidding!!! :D

 

Right now I am running a Mag 18 for every thing. What I will do is use a small pump in the 200 gph at 4 ft, plus an additional 2 pumps, each with a SCWD, one coming from the front corners, the other one from the center back. They will turn on and off with the lights.

[mutley29]

Thanks for the input everyone

 

I've got the substrate in and will start emptying my 130 gal RO/DI storage unit into it tonight, then that will be moved into the fish room too.

 

There were many reasons i chose a large return pump, i want more flow in the tank, i will be tapping off to a planned frag tank and CA, Kalk reactors and just the reliability of the larger pumps on the market.

 

I have a Dart that i purchased from SteveOutlaw for my closed loop connected to 2 supersquirts.

I got fed up of looking at and cleaning powerheads in my old tank so thought about going powerheadless with the largest system the wife would allow without me selling body parts to pay for it, although having said that i'm not looking forward to the elec bill when both my return and Closed loop pumps are running in conjunction with the 2 pumps on my ER and the 4 400watt 15k MH's i'll have over the tank.

 

Thanks again all

 

Anton

[ErikS]

the wife would allow without me selling body parts to pay for it,

 

not looking forward to the elec bill

 

For me those two seem to go hand in hand

 

I got fed up of looking at and cleaning powerheads in my old tank

 

Understand, had the exact same goal when I started - unfortunately never did find a way to have enough flow without two big ugly powerheads in the tank :bigcry:

[BeltwayBandit]

I just got my 400A ammeter. If you really want to know how much your system is drawing and what it is costing you I can let you borrow it. (Once I build the test rig for it.)

[ErikS]

I just got my 400A ammeter. If you really want to know how much your system is drawing and what it is costing you I can let you borrow it. (Once I build the test rig for it.)

Half of me wants to, the other half is afraid my wife will find out exactly what the tank draws :o