Reporting on the firefish group

[treesprite]

I still have the 6 of them. They are tending to keep themselves scattered in the tank. Yesterday for the first time, I saw a couple of them engaging each other, to the exclusion of their other 4 mates, in some kind of mixed social activity which involved some apparent aggression - I sent an e-mail to WetWeb Media, because I didn't think anyone here could do more than guess. Bob Fenner responded - he didn't have any definitive answer. Below is the correspondence:  

 

Subject: firefish: pairing off process from within a group?
Hello Folks at WWM. I would like to have information on the process by
which firefish (nemotoloris magnifica) develop pairs from within a larger
group, in which there are no previously existing pairs. I presently have in
my 75 gallon reef tank, a group of 6 of them, which I have had for about 4
months. (Please know that I didn't just jump into getting them without
knowing anything. I've had saltwater tanks for about 15 years. I had done
research, had kept pairs at various times, and for a year or two had both a
pair of orange firefish AND a pair of purple firefish all living under the
same rock together).
<Have seen this in the wild; twice... rare>
I like to believe that 1. leaving a nippy chasing chromis in the tank that
I really don't like, has helped to maintain cohesion in the group of
firefish;
<Likely so>
and 2. changing from once-a-day feeding to feeding smaller amounts  a few
times a day, deposited broadly in the tank, has helped to prevent
territoriality or competition for resources.
<And this>
Getting more to
the point of the e-mail: Up until tonight, I have seen no aggression
between the firefish. These firefish are almost always all 6 out in open
water everywhere in the tank, and they are not at all shy (I'm guessing
they might be if single rather than in a group).
<I think so too>
I have been sitting here watching the fish for about an hour, and my
observation makes me want to believe it's more than simply the typical
firefish aggression that causes six to become one. This aggression is
strictly between 2 of the fish. They take turns chasing and nipping each
other, but in between these turns, they hoover together like buddies. They
hoover together with about an inch of space between them,  not nearly
touching as I have observed from past bonded pairs I've had, but
nevertheless, the two of them together away from the other fish, never
interacting with the other four firefish in the tank. What should I believe
about the implications of this social behavior?
<Mmm, something going on, but I don't know enough re Microdesmids, this
species, to speculate...>
Is this the way
firefish develop into a pair from amongst a larger group, or just some
interesting aggressive behavior pattern?
<Could be two males "jousting"; might well be pair-bonding twixt a pair. In
the wild, adults are almost invariable found as pairs>
Thank you in advance for any information, feedback, and.or suggestions you
can give to me.
<I'd keep looking about (see WWM re scientific literature searches); and
asking on the various specialized petfish and scuba bb's... Thank you for
sharing; and please do continue to report your observations and co-guesses.
Bob Fenner>

 

If anyone has any definitive answers from research or observations rather than simple conjecture, please let me know, with links to info if you have any. Thanks.

Edited September 11, 2013 by treesprite

[treesprite]

I have not seen any of the chasing behavior today, but I have no idea what they were doing while I was gone (probably plotting against me).

[ohaverd]

Nice to see you havent lost any of them.  I am about to bring 2 firefish, 1 purple firefish, and one zebra barred dartfish out of QT this weekend.  So far in the QT they have gotten along just fine... Whats weird though is that one of the firefish likes to hang out with the purple firefish, and the other firefish and the zebra are loners.  Should be interesting to see what they do once I put them in the DT.

[treesprite]

Nice to see you havent lost any of them.  I am about to bring 2 firefish, 1 purple firefish, and one zebra barred dartfish out of QT this weekend.  So far in the QT they have gotten along just fine... Whats weird though is that one of the firefish likes to hang out with the purple firefish, and the other firefish and the zebra are loners.  Should be interesting to see what they do once I put them in the DT.

 

How big is your tank? Are the firefish actually a pair or just two single firefish? The purples supposedly are more aggressive than the oranges, so maybe if the oranges make a pair and thus get aggressive to the purple, the purple will be able to put up with them.  The zebra barred dartfish shouldn't factor in with the social issues of the firefish trio (I have 3 scissortail dartfish in my tank).

[ohaverd]

How big is your tank? Are the firefish actually a pair or just two single firefish? The purples supposedly are more aggressive than the oranges, so maybe if the oranges make a pair and thus get aggressive to the purple, the purple will be able to put up with them.  The zebra barred dartfish shouldn't factor in with the social issues of the firefish trio (I have 3 scissortail dartfish in my tank).

Its a 120 deep dimension.  I'll let you know how it works out lol. 

[ohaverd]

So they have been in my DT for a week now (2 firefish, 1 purple firefish).  I didnt see the purple fire fish for the first 4 or 5 days, and basically wrote him off as crab food.  But on days 6 I noticed him pop out of a cave really quick during a feeding.  I guess it is good he is alive, but darn I was looking forward to watching that guy.  I hope he eventually gets over his shyness.  The 2 firefish that were bought from seperate tanks at QR are doing well.  Sometimes they hang out next to eachother at the top of the water column, and sime times they are on opposite sides.  No signs of aggression or anything.  I let you know if it changes.

[treesprite]

I think the purple will stay out more once he figures out that there are no threats in the tank (assuming there aren't).

[ohaverd]

I think the purple will stay out more once he figures out that there are no threats in the tank (assuming there aren't).

ya all the fish are sweethearts.  I have only seen the purple ff twice in almost two weeks lol.

[s2nhle]

When I first bought my firefish, i did not see them for almost a week. but after a week, i see them more in the open water. make sure you have tank cover, they are jumpers.

[treesprite]

Alright, I have seen NO aggression of any kind since the day I originally posted about. Maybe they are just waiting to do it while I'm not looking

[treesprite]

I never saw any aggression after that one time, which is a good thing.

 

One of the firefish is missing. I was preoccupied with the broken wrist instead of watching the tank intently every day for a few weeks, so I'm not sure when it vanished. I can't take the rocks out of the sump with just one hand, so there's no looking for it in there (that's where I usually find them).  If I find the missing one in the sump alive, I don't know if I would want to put it back in the tank after all that time.

 

As for the remaining 5, it appears that there may be two potential pairs forming plus one single fish. The reason I think there may be two pairs now, is that a lot of the time two fish tend to be on one end of the tank and the other two on the other end of the tank. Right at the moment they are all on one side of the tank scattered individually.

Edited October 25, 2013 by treesprite

[ohaverd]

So far no aggression shown from any of my three.  The purple finally came out of hiding and is doing well.  The only problem i'm having is they are the only fish that havent mastered the art of flake food fighting.  They dont even attempt to get into the mix when the autofeeder goes off...  I think the only food they get are a little bit of scraps and the frozen stuff I feed every other day.  They don't seem to be starving or anything though.

[treesprite]

I don't use flake food anymore.

 

One of my scissortails is also missing. Maybe in the same polace as the firefish. The problem with these skinny fish is that they can slip into tiny spaces.

[dave w]

Treesprite and ohaverd, how are your dartfish doing?

 

I'm thinking of housing half a dozen pairs of different dartfish in the same tank for breeding purposes.  In your experience, are all of the different dartfish species compatible with each other?  This will be a netted off area of perhaps 90 gallons within a larger tank.  How many dartfish pairs it would hold?  Each pair will be a separate species of dartfish.  Finally, what goby or blenny pairs would also be compatible in this group?

 

Many thanks.