Sump/Refugium Input Needed - All advice welcomed

[netpez]

So some of you may have heard the joys and tears from Huly and I jumping into the saltwater world.

 

The tank is starting to really thrive, to the point, where I think it is time to get a bit more advanced. Some of you may know, we have the Red Sea Max 250 (66 gallons) All in one system. While it has been great in teaching us alot about the craft, I have learned there are some aspects of an all in one that kinda suck, including the limitation in adding components to the whole setup, as well as some of the built in components (ahem... crappy protein skimmer). I have decided to expand my red sea max into a little more advanced setup, namely a sump/refugium.

 

I have been looking around and talking to different folks, and cannot decide which route to go. I have a reef tank (corals, fish, inverts) and I hear some folks say go refugium, and someone also saying refugium is a waste of time, go sump with just bioballs. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought there were greater advantages to a refugium that can house plants like chaeto or kelp, such as consuming excess nutrients and reducing phosphate. If that is not the case, what is the point of a refugium? I would like to get folks thoughts on which they believe is better for my system.

 

The red sea max all in one comes with a protein skimmer, a couple bubble traps, a fine filter (use sparingly, as it screws up the water levels and the protein skimmer), and a area to put a small bag of those wierd white pellets (I used live rock rubble instead), and a crabon bag. Cleaning this thing is a major pain in the ass. I don't mind putting in the work of cleaning the tank (I enjoy it) I do a light scrubdown every two weeks , where I scrub the protein skimmer, lightly wash bubble traps, and vacuum detritus in the bottom of the RSM "sump". Every 4 weeks I do a heavy duty scrubbing where I will scrub the protein skimmer, fully wash the bubble traps, scrub the inside of the sump (I have a dedicated dishwashing brush), vacuum the bottom, use a eheim vacuum to clear anything hanging in the water of the sump, rinse my carbon bag (if it does not need replacing), shake my live rock rubble in some clean saltwater, to rid of any extra "junk", wipe down the whole tank in general (I nip salt creep in the bud), scrub and flush the pumps, scrub the hoses inside and out, and even scrub the insides of the return nozzles. This of course does not mention the daily magnet cleaning of the glass of the tank. So as you can see, I have no problem with the work, but it is a major pain in the ass, because it is difficult to reach into the back of the sump (a lot of tiny areas that my arm just can't reach into). I am hoping a refugium/sump (I will be as diligent in cleaning) will hopefully reduce the level of cleaning I do in the RSM sump, and may in itself be easier to get into and clean (they look a lot more open).

 

The primary reason of the sump however is to add/replace components. I need a better protein skimmer. The darn RSM skimmer plain out stink and huly sees me fiddling with it for an hour trying to optimize the darn thing. I would also like to add an auto topoff system (I heard avast is good) so I don't have to manually top off every morning and night (I get about a gallon of evaporation per day, probably because of the 4 fans that run in the RSM) Which leads me to another thing I want to add: a chiller. I think adding a chiller and yanking at least 2 of the 4 fans will reduce my evaporation, and while this winter the temp has stayed steady, I can remember when I setup the RSM in late july, I had lots of ups and downs in temp, and hopefully the chiller can help. Which brings me to the greatest thing I need to add. My corals have been really taking off, and coraline algae has been going bonkers as well. At this time, alkalinity and calcium are really starting to become an issue (I am dosing at both my topoffs each day). At this point, I either need to come up with a dosing system, or I have also heard that kalk stirrers can add alk & calcium as well (amyone have recommendations on this?).

 

These are just a couple things I think would help by using a sump/refugium. I would like to hear from folks, which route I should take, and if they think that any other components would be beneficial. It would be really cool to get a refugium that can handle my 66 gallon currently, but could also be used when I go to a larger aquarium maybe a year or so from now (maybe anywhere from 150-200 gallons).

 

If you watch some videos by newyorksteelo on youtube, he has some cool stuff, but I am not sure where I should start.

 

Many of you guys are veterans at this hobby, and I would love to get your inputs on this.

 

Thanks everyone!

Pez

[netpez]

Here are the videos I was referring to: http://www.youtube.com/user/newyorksteelo

Edited March 12, 2013 by netpez

[Coral Hind]

I would say no to the sump with bio-balls in it. I hope the person that mentioned that to you doesn't read this and get mad. You have enough live rock that it will handle what you need as far as bio-load waste conversion goes. The bio-balls will limit the rocks ability to process nitrates.

 

Adding a refugium to me benefits any system in proving a food source of pods and nutrient export via algae. I don't know how easy it is to make an all-in-one into a sump system but I would look into that and don't modify the tank to a point where re-sale value is lowered when you decide to upgrade. I would look into maybe getting the bigger tank now and do this as an upgrade with a sump slash refugium. I would not plan on this in-between phase but plan to go straight to the big tank. No sense it wasting time/money only to change it out and upgrade again in a year which more than likely will be six months.

[CaptainRon]

I agree with what coral hind said. If you plan to upgrade, either do the upgrade now or wait until you do the upgrade to add in a sump and everything else you'd like to do. If you end up drilling the AIO, you may just totally kill the value of it for resale. If you're not concerned about that then your options could certainly change.

 

Personally, I'd upgrade out of the AIO - it's pretty much what I did

 

Biocube 29 ---> Marineland 93 Gallon "Cube" ---> Marineland 200 Gallon DD

 

I'll have to get a new house if I want to upgrade anymore

[wade]

I'd add to that as well... start with the proper sump with a good skimmer. Once it is stable, then think about adding a refugium if you want it... although most sumps serve very well as refugia (some people even turn them into decent crytpic filters). A lighted refugium (or truly, an algal scrubber) is a real pita. Get the tank up and stable and growing then modify. Just plan for it now (water movement and placement) and leave it at that. Most overflow boxes and sumps house an amazing assortment of copepods, amphipods, mysids, etc without any help.

[Muddy357]

Personally I would recommend upgrading now.... I have heard that doing that kind of upgrading/modifications to the RSM is a real pita and you would be better served to continue with what you are doing while you look for a bigger system to upgrade to. Just my 2 cents.....