Integral9 June 15, 2012 June 15, 2012 A couple of months ago I noticed that the lights on my tank would go off for a few seconds then come back on at seemingly random intervals, usually several hours a part. I figured a temp sensor was tripping so I bought a hanging kit and took the lights out from under my hood and hung them from the ceiling. Unfortunately, that did not solve the problem. I cannot find anything wrong with the fixture, both fans work and come on and there isn't any blockage in the vents and I have not modified the fixture at all. The other night while the lights were off, I noticed the lights flicker, like someone had flipped the switch really fast. Kind of looked like a lighting flash in the tank. Pretty cool I thought, but what the heck is causing that? the circuit is in the off position, or it's supposed to be. The light is plugged into a Digital Aquatics PC4 and that is on a separate circuit from the rest of my tank. When I first plugged the light in last September, and I did not know this at the time, but fluorescent ballasts leak a small amount of current and that can cause a GFI to trip. Apparently there is enough fluorescent ballasts in that light to cause a GFI to trip, so there is no GFI on it. I discovered that the first day I plugged it in. The PC4 it's plugged into has 4 outlets, 2 solenoid relays and 2 digital relays. The light has 3 plugs, and I am using 1 solenoid relay and 2 of the digital relays. I am using the other solenoid relay to run the peristaltic pump for my ATO as it doesn't draw enough current to make the digital relays flip when told to. I bought the light new a year or more before actually getting to use it, so I am not sure if Aquactinics will offer me any support. Has anyone seen this problem before and resolved it? Any ideas to try?
Muddy357 June 15, 2012 June 15, 2012 It sounds like there is a short somewhere do you have a volt meter? if you do you can check the current running to the sockets.
surf&turf June 15, 2012 June 15, 2012 My lights don't cut off and on, but when they are off, I get the lighting affect sometimes. This fixture came from Catalina aquarium. I have another tank ran by an Icecap ballast, no storms over this tank.
icecool2 June 15, 2012 June 15, 2012 I'm intrigued. How is the light turned off, but still powered? Is there a separate control line to the ballast? It sounds to me like the ballast is going if you are getting flashes while it is running. But if it has some sort of external control, you probably should check that out.
Coral Hind June 15, 2012 June 15, 2012 I have the same issue randomly with my ACIII. When it switches an outlet on my DC8 my light that is off but plugged into my DC4 flickers. Both are on seperate circuits not even close to one another. It seems like it might be a control issue when the base unit sends out a command to one relay that other relays might react quickly to the signal for a split second.
Integral9 June 15, 2012 Author June 15, 2012 It sounds like there is a short somewhere do you have a volt meter? if you do you can check the current running to the sockets. I can plug in the USB adapter for my Reef Keeper and monitor the power consumption on the circuits with my laptop, but I will have to run that for a full day and then look at the logs to see what happening. I am not typically around when the lights do their thing during the day. Although, my in-laws who watch my kid during the day have told me that they have noticed it as well. I'm intrigued. How is the light turned off, but still powered? Is there a separate control line to the ballast? I do not have a separate control line to the ballasts, although I think the light has an input for one, iirc. The switch on the light is set to the on position so that when the Reef Keeper turns on the outlets the lights are plugged into, the lights come on. It sounds to me like the ballast is going if you are getting flashes while it is running. But if it has some sort of external control, you probably should check that out. Depending on what happens with the logs I'll see if I can dig up my outdoor timers and set the lights up on those and see if the problem persists.
icecool2 June 15, 2012 June 15, 2012 OK, I have a clearer picture now. If it were just the fact that the lights blinked while powered on, I would have said it is an issue with the fixture. Since the light comes on when it is supposed to be powered off, I'm going with the controller as the culprit. If no power is applied, no light is emitted. Your idea to monitor is a good one, but it all depends on the update rate of the logger. If this is happening over a fraction of a second, the log may not even register it. What would be interesting is to note what time you see the flash and then check the log to see if something else, like a heater, turned on at that time. Could it be that you have something plugged in which has too high a power draw for the controller?-
Integral9 June 15, 2012 Author June 15, 2012 I have the same issue randomly with my ACIII. When it switches an outlet on my DC8 my light that is off but plugged into my DC4 flickers. Both are on seperate circuits not even close to one another. It seems like it might be a control issue when the base unit sends out a command to one relay that other relays might react quickly to the signal for a split second. That's intersting. I did notice that one time when the light was off and flickered, it seemed to coincided with my ATO kicking on. Same PC4, different outlet. I'll test that tonight and add that outlet to the log monitor as well.
surf&turf June 15, 2012 June 15, 2012 My lights are just plugged into the wall. I turn the lights on and off with the switch on the light. Still get the flashes. No controller, timer, nothing.
Integral9 June 15, 2012 Author June 15, 2012 OK, I have a clearer picture now. If it were just the fact that the lights blinked while powered on, I would have said it is an issue with the fixture. Since the light comes on when it is supposed to be powered off, I'm going with the controller as the culprit. If no power is applied, no light is emitted. Your idea to monitor is a good one, but it all depends on the update rate of the logger. If this is happening over a fraction of a second, the log may not even register it. What would be interesting is to note what time you see the flash and then check the log to see if something else, like a heater, turned on at that time. Could it be that you have something plugged in which has too high a power draw for the controller?- I shouldn't be pulling too much from the PC4 outlets. The circuits on the light are for: 4 x 39W (160W total), 4 x 39W (160W total), and 6 x 39W (240W total). The digital relays are rated up to 8A ea. (960W) and the solenoid relays are rated up to 15A ea (1800w), however the entire power bar cannot handle more than 15A total, but then I wouldn't be getting anymore than that as the circuit is on a 15A breaker. My heaters are plugged into my DJ switch panel and not controlled by RK PC4s I have. They don't usually come on though, especially in the summer time. My tank's been running a little warm lately, tbh.
Coral Hind June 16, 2012 June 16, 2012 Try unplugging the control cable, cleaning it, and installing it again.
Integral9 June 18, 2012 Author June 18, 2012 Well, the issue isn't my lights. Phew. However, I think I have two separate issues. I was behind my tank on Sunday getting ready to hook up my USB module to do some monitoring as my fix for flickering worked, but the lights were still powering off completely during the day, and the lights went out. So I looked at the PC4 and the dang thing had completely powered off. Then it powered back on, did it's little self check and re-established comms with the control unit and turned back on. I hadn't even touched the PC4 yet when it happened, so unless my presense caused it malfunction (which I doubt) I'm not sure what to think about that. I checked all the connections and they all seemed good so I think I'll contact Digital Aquatics about it. As for the flickering, I was on the DA forums and I found some posts with the same issue with a pump on the same channel. Apparently some pumps (I think this applies to most pumps actually) cause a reverse voltage surge when they come on. This can leak into the other channels and with fluorescent lights, the ballasts can fire for a split sec and make the bulbs flicker. The simple fix is to put a surge suppressor between the pump and the power controller. <sigh> So I hung *another* surge suppressor off my power controller and I haven't noticed the flickering anymore.
Coral Hind June 18, 2012 June 18, 2012 If the whole PC4 lost power I would think it was the wall outlet connection. You might want to safely remove the outlet and make sure the connections are tight. Sometimes the wires can become loose on the screws and cause that issue. If it is the neutral that is loose then that might also make the issue of the pump more obvious as it is not able to return to the main panel properly. Does the plug feel tight when you push it in and pull it out. The fingers inside outlets can lose tension over time and also cause a similar issue.
Integral9 June 18, 2012 Author June 18, 2012 iirc, the plug was ok, but like the rest of my house, is about 30 years old so it probably needs replacing. I used to run my 55g off that outlet and I didn't have any problems with it, but I also didn't have the PC4 back then.
icecool2 June 18, 2012 June 18, 2012 Apparently some pumps (I think this applies to most pumps actually) cause a reverse voltage surge when they come on. This can leak into the other channels and with fluorescent lights, the ballasts can fire for a split sec and make the bulbs flicker. The simple fix is to put a surge suppressor between the pump and the power controller. <sigh> So I hung *another* surge suppressor off my power controller and I haven't noticed the flickering anymore. This is true of any motor. Remember, a motor run in reverse is a generator. No need to bore everyone with the theory, but I'm very surprised that DA doesn't have any circuitry onboard to address this. Are there specific ports that are supposed to be used for pumps?
Integral9 June 18, 2012 Author June 18, 2012 This is true of any motor. Remember, a motor run in reverse is a generator. No need to bore everyone with the theory, but I'm very surprised that DA doesn't have any circuitry onboard to address this. Are there specific ports that are supposed to be used for pumps? The only difference between any of the plugs on the PC4 is 2 (middle ones) have solid state relays, while the other 2 have solenoid relays. I am baffled as to why a surge protection circuit is not included as well. Especially considering the kinds of power controllers I have at work that we use in our data center cost about as much as the RKL + PC4, and offer a wealth of added capabilities. Such as 8 outlets fully switched. 240v input. Network ready. manual overrides. etc.
Coral Hind June 18, 2012 June 18, 2012 You should design and market one. It sounds like the need for one is there. Include arc fault protection in it too.
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