mchunger March 12, 2012 Share March 12, 2012 Once a tank is cycled, does it need to have a constant source of ammonia to "remain" cycled? Or will the beneficial bacteria die-off once all the ammonia is used up? My intention is to prepare a QT and have it cycled, but then remain that way until new live stock is added (perhaps a few weeks or a few months). Should I continue to have a raw shrimp in there or add flakes to keep a source of ammonia? Or can i just keep it empty (with my HOB running) and if so, how long can that last before i add fish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 12, 2012 Share March 12, 2012 Add a pinch of flake food every now and then and do water changes just like you would for you main display. Do not add substrate to your QT. You can add LR or a bio sponge but bear in mind that if you need to treat you can only use that LR ans spnge in that tank. If you treat and use a sponge I'd throw it out after treatment and keep another sponge in the sump to build bio for the next time. Once a tank is cycled, does it need to have a constant source of ammonia to "remain" cycled? Or will the beneficial bacteria die-off once all the ammonia is used up? My intention is to prepare a QT and have it cycled, but then remain that way until new live stock is added (perhaps a few weeks or a few months). Should I continue to have a raw shrimp in there or add flakes to keep a source of ammonia? Or can i just keep it empty (with my HOB running) and if so, how long can that last before i add fish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaddc March 12, 2012 Share March 12, 2012 +1 Also, while a portion of the bacteria indeed dies off, a portion simply goes dorment. A tank with dorment bacteria has a shorter "re"-cycle than a fresh tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchunger March 12, 2012 Author Share March 12, 2012 jan and jaddc, thanks for the replies. yep, no substrate in the QT right now. Just some PVCs and sponge in the HOB filter. what would be the purpose of the periodic water changes on a fishless tank? not questioning because i really do appreciate the insight, just trying to understand. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 12, 2012 Share March 12, 2012 (edited) Just do it!!!! LOL, I'm only kidding, LOL.... Ask as many questions as you can think of because that's the only way you'll get to understand as much as you can in this hobby. Water changes would be to keep the minerals and nutirents up. As you feed the food still breaks down and with the breakdown you can still cause high nitrates and maybe even ammonia, etc. I don't know how fast it would happen. But with the right temp, flow and the water cycling even though you can't see the life it's there. Along with the food breaking down, with life comes waste. I think jan and jaddc, thanks for the replies. yep, no substrate in the QT right now. Just some PVCs and sponge in the HOB filter. what would be the purpose of the periodic water changes on a fishless tank? not questioning because i really do appreciate the insight, just trying to understand. thanks! Edited March 12, 2012 by Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw March 12, 2012 Share March 12, 2012 Why wouldn't you just take old water change water from your display tank and add to the QT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 12, 2012 Share March 12, 2012 (edited) I tried that and the tank still goes through a cycle. Old water is missing sme nutrients. I would think you'd want your fish in a high nutrient, clean environment. I learned the hard way when I lost all but 2 out od 20 fish in 10 day and had to set up a QT quick. the ammonia spiked. Had I already had the QT going and fed to build bacteria, etc. I would not have had such quick ammonia spikes. Also old water in my situation was infected water. Why wouldn't you just take old water change water from your display tank and add to the QT? Edited March 12, 2012 by Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 12, 2012 Share March 12, 2012 From Copps "I always say when I talk about QT in my lectures that the most common problem BY FAR with QT is improper biologiocal filtration... and that seems to be what got Jan here... I do 100% water changes on my QT tanks, not daily, but usually weekly depending on the circumstances. I also highly recommend these, as ammonia is by far the biggest QT killer... http://www.seachem.c...moniaAlert.html They will give you a real time reading on your ammonia levels and let you know when it's an issue... they minute it starts to turn off yellow... even before it gets to the first stage on the level indicator, you should plan a water change... also be sure to mix your newly made up saltwater for at least 36 hours (or 24 if you're in a pinch) and be sure it is the same temp and salinity... One other note... a lot of people initially get discouraged when they have issues with QT... do not give it up! Like anything else there is a learning curve, and as much as you read about something you will have initial hiccups... you could read and study and study about riding a bike for months and yet you'd still have issues when you first tried it out... and if we all gave up after initial failures NONE OF US would be in this hobby! The nice thing is that once you gain confidence in your QT and treatment methods and understand what goes on when you do have an issue pop up you handle the situation much better. Jan, said: My thinking is that some of the pods and bacteria that are on the few rocks i placed in the hospital tank may not withstand the copper. The die off will make more ammonia. Everything I've read says copper will kill off pods, inverts and some bacteria. Too much copper can kill the fish too. It's a balancing act. Copps. said: This is very true and you need to be aware of that... copper works amazingly well but has its drawbacks... I use Seachem Cupramine over any other copper products... Many of our displays harbor parasites, and so what is also very common is infecting our newly purchased fish in the QT with parasites introduced from our display... I keep my QTs completely separate and do not let one drop of water go between any of my QTs or display... it only takes a drop (actually less) to introduce a parasite, the the newly purchased weak and stressed fish easily become vulnerable to many of them... I prefer Aquaclear hang on the back filters with a couple of the sponges that come with them in them. These sponges act as all the media you need for a good colony of nitrifying bacteria to colonize (the kind that break down ammonia and nitrites). On top of being great for biological filtration, they are great for mechanical filtration... when you do your water change you ring out the sponges and remove all of the excess food and wastes before they have a chance to breakdown (into ammonia of course)... and unlike what many people think, these sponges do not affect any medications or copper based remedies... Hope that helps! Copps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchunger March 12, 2012 Author Share March 12, 2012 ok, subsequent cycle question after reading that last post. when in QT, do folks ALWAYS treat for as a preventative measures with Copper\Cupramine\other parasite type meds? Or only when symptoms present themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 12, 2012 Share March 12, 2012 I've heard that some suppliers do but it's not recommended. It stresses the fish. I treated with copper because I had to and I used copper safe. Prophylactic treatments include hyposalinity, fresh water dips, prazi and then if you see signs and symptoms treat accordingly. In my case so many things were popping up I started with hypo then went to formaline, then antibiotics and finally copper safe with prazi was the treatment that worked. My fish were exhbiting all sorts of S&S; red gills, rapid labored breathing, no signs and just dying, lesions, slimey coat and white spots. ok, subsequent cycle question after reading that last post. when in QT, do folks ALWAYS treat for as a preventative measures with Copper\Cupramine\other parasite type meds? Or only when symptoms present themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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