GHA from H-E-double hockey sticks!

[icecool2]

+1 to what Ryan said.

 

It isn't too surprising that you read 0 on your test kits. The algae is extremely effective at pulling the nutrients from the water and often absorbs it as quickly as it is made. I have a sea hare in my tank that has finally beaten back my HA problem. I have tried everything except for an algal turf scrubber (that's next). Marine algae fix worked for a couple of weeks for me and then stopped. I tried high Mag and just killed all of my inverts. Supposedly you have to use the Tech M stuff or it doesn't work.

 

At the end of the day, you probably already know this, you have a nutrient export problem. It can be that you are overfeeding, you are overstocked or your rockwork has a lot of nutrients in it already (<-my problem). I am at the point where I'd rather not fight the algae, but use it. Once I move I'm going to try for one of the small upflow ATS and see if that keeps it at bay. My sea hare will be available soon too.

[Jan]

Tuxedo urchin!!! They mow through the stuff. There's another member with the same issue. I've never seen anything like it. I've dosed Kent magnesium and it started to come off with a turkey baster, but then it comes right back. It's really bad.

[icecool2]

I've thought about urchins too. How are tuxedos with bulldozing and eating coralline?

[Ryan S]

Tuxedo urchin!!! They mow through the stuff. There's another member with the same issue. I've never seen anything like it. I've dosed Kent magnesium and it started to come off with a turkey baster, but then it comes right back. It's really bad.

 

I read online that bryopsis only comes back if you don't leave the Kent Tech-M at high enough levels long enough. If you leave it at 1700-1800 for 2-4 weeks, it won't return. I'm only 2 weeks out post-treatment, so it's too early for me to confirm that is true from my experience.

[Ryan S]

I've thought about urchins too. How are tuxedos with bulldozing and eating coralline?

 

I used to have one. He bulldozed worse than my turbo snails. He'd constantly have frags on his back that he picked up while moving about the tank. And they eat coralline algae, so, there are definite cons with them. On the flip side, I'd rather have to fix frags from time to time, and have less coralline, than bryopsis, GHA, etc etc. And they're cheap.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Ryan S

[icecool2]

Except coralline helps in the fight against nuisance algae. It doesn't give it a place to take root.

 

Personally, I'd suggest a sea hare first before any other animals. They just are algae eating machines. I'll never go the chemical route again.

[LCDRDATA]

Except coralline helps in the fight against nuisance algae. It doesn't give it a place to take root.

 

Personally, I'd suggest a sea hare first before any other animals. They just are algae eating machines. I'll never go the chemical route again.

Tuxedo urchin, pincushion urchin, sea hare all been tried and failed I'm seriously considering a rabbitfish, but with what I've already bought that was "supposed to" eat stuff like this but wouldn't I'm somewhat hesitant to go that route. I'm also corresponding with John at ReefCleaners now, and hoping he can come up with something. I'll probably put phosguard and/or neo-zeo in my small canister filter again, but as it didn't seem to make a difference before; I'll probably get some Tech-M as well. Do you "inject" that straight out of the bottle or just generally in the tank? I don't to "destroy the village to save it." Thanks all!

[Jan]

After mine got rid of the little bryopsis I had it just kept the rocks clean of all algae. It didn't put a dent in my coralline algae.

 

I've thought about urchins too. How are tuxedos with bulldozing and eating coralline?

[Jan]

It was hit or miss with me and sea hares. Params have to be perfect. I lost 5 out of six before I tried 1 tuxedo urchin. The Tuxedo urchin lasted over 2 years in my DT. Loved that guy!

 

Except coralline helps in the fight against nuisance algae. It doesn't give it a place to take root.

 

Personally, I'd suggest a sea hare first before any other animals. They just are algae eating machines. I'll never go the chemical route again.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Jan

[Jan]

BRK usually has them.

[LCDRDATA]

I added a couple of Mexican turbos and it seems that they are at least nibbling on the stuff so I added four more - we'll see how it goes but that's the first bright spot on this in some time. I'm going to order some Kent Tech-M as well, since apparently the brand/composition of mag makes a difference as well as the level.

 

I also just added about two gallons of brand new healthy chaeto (courtesy of OldReefer) to my 'fuge and I am running my light 24/7. This brings up another question: it's a CPR fixture and comes with a 50/50 (10K/actinic) power compact. I am thinking I would get better growth with either 10K or 6700K - does the actinic component add anything in terms of helping chaeto grow? Thanks!

[Ryan S]

This brings up another question: it's a CPR fixture and comes with a 50/50 (10K/actinic) power compact. I am thinking I would get better growth with either 10K or 6700K - does the actinic component add anything in terms of helping chaeto grow? Thanks!

 

It does not. 6500k CFL bulbs have worked the best for me. I'd recommend the 6700K for your fixture for the best growth.

[icecool2]

Sea hares were hit or miss for me too. Actually all before this one were a miss. This guy is working great though.

 

IME, chaeto doesn't help with hair algae. My chaeto typically just melts away over time and the HA is still there.

 

You really need to get to the root of the problem. It takes time to fix and it is frustrating as heck. I know you want to be rid of the algae, TRUST ME I get that part completely, but you need to get rid of it and keep it gone. There are a lot of options out there, but anything beyond nutrient control is just going to be a constant cost and maintenance effort.

 

If you use Tech-M and kill it all, it will be back just as bad as before.

If you buy a fish to eat it, you are adding to your nutrient problem and it will come back.

If you add a reactor, you will be rid of it for as long as you run the reactor.

BUT if you get your nutrient import and export to be even, you will be rid of it forever.

 

I mentioned this already, but there are 3 basic reasons for HA to flourish:

 

1. Overfeeding

2. Overstocking

3. Nutrient leaching from LR, ornaments, water source, etc.

 

The first two are easy to determine and easy to address.

 

1. How often do you feed and how much?

2. What is in your tank (and how big is tank and how long has it been up)?

 

The third is harder....

 

Where did your rock and sand come from? Live or dry? How did you prepare it?

What is your water source? Have you tested your water before/during/after you prep it for a water change?

[LCDRDATA]

... anything beyond nutrient control is just going to be a constant cost and maintenance effort.

 

Actually, I agree, and that absolutely is my longer-term goal. Right now, my priority is knocking it back sufficiently that I don't loose any more livestock while I work on the nutrient balance.

 

I mentioned this already, but there are 3 basic reasons for HA to flourish:

 

1. Overfeeding

2. Overstocking

3. Nutrient leaching from LR, ornaments, water source, etc.

 

There is one more that I think is a factor in my tank right now, and I'll talk about that below.

 

The first two are easy to determine and easy to address.

 

1. How often do you feed and how much?

2. What is in your tank (and how big is tank and how long has it been up)?

 

Taking these in reverse order, my DT is a 75-gallon mixed reef that's been up a little over four years. Current fish include 1 each leopard wrasse, Kole tang, engineeer goby, Randall's Shrimp goby; 2 each green chromis, yellow-tailed blue damsel, false percula clown. All fish resident at least a year and at or close to full adult size. Corals include SPS (birdnest and montiporas), LPS (open brain, acan, aussie duncan) and softies (xenia, kenya tree, GSP, encrusting gorgonian, asst. zoas). Inverts include a derasa clam (~6"), skunk cleaner and coral banded shrimp, and cleaners (asst. snails, mithrax crab, etc).

 

I'm feeding the equivalent of 1-1.5 cubes frozen once daily, some flakes or pellets and 1/2 sheet nori or equivalent every couple of days. Once a week I shut down the main return pump and add to the daily regimen another cube or two of rotifers/baby brine shrimp, ~20 ml Kent phytoplex, and ~10-15ml TLF marine snow. I let that circulate for a couple of hours and then start the return back up. I've been gradually cutting this back to the point that one or two fish started picking on polyps and then bumped up slightly.

 

The third is harder....

 

Where did your rock and sand come from? Live or dry? How did you prepare it?

What is your water source? Have you tested your water before/during/after you prep it for a water change?

My rock came primarily from two places: dry rock from the original owner (who had broken down the tank to sell) and live rock from one or two reefers I found via Craigslist (this was in my pre-WAMAS days). Live sand came from Marine Depot. With roughly 70 pounds of live rock and another 60+ pounds of live sand, initial cycle was minimal; I didn't do anything in particular to prepare it. I have vacuumed the accessible parts of the sand bed twice since all this started, but it hasn't made a discernable difference.

 

I use a four-stage RO/DI setup for water; I recently replaced all four stages and added a two-point TDS meter. Water off the membrane reads between 2-5, and 0 after the DI resin. I use Reef Crystals salt mixed to ~1.025, but haven't otherwise tested my input water.

 

Regarding your three-point "reasons" listing above, I agree. I think there's an additional factor that may be contributing, and that sadly is dead livestock. I hadn't thought about it before, but right now I can't remember the last time I saw the large serpent star or sea cucumber I have (had?). Similar story with the last sea hare I tried. I'm now wondering if they didn't crawl into a hole or bury themselves, expire, and start decomposing in some inaccessible place in my tank. Any one of those would be enough to "overfeed" the tank for some time.

[Jan]

What are you parameters again?

[LCDRDATA]

What are you parameters again?

Last tested a few days ago:

pH 8.2

Alk 7 dKH

ammonia/nitrite/nitrate all 0

phosphate 0 =/< x <.03

Calcium 500

Mag 1850

 

Bringing up alk with Kent Superbuffer dKH; it was low the previous test. Mag raised w/Brightwell Magnesion; I've ordered the Kent Tech-M that apparently is the only one that kills GHA.

Edited July 14, 2012 by LCDRDATA

[LCDRDATA]

Well, the mexican turbos are having a limited impact on the stuff growing on rocks. They aren't touching the stuff on the sandbed, though, or what's growing between polyps. I'm thinking that maybe a small fighting conch might help on the former - any thoughts?

[icecool2]

Really nice and thorough responses, that helps dig in. Here are my impressions:

 

1. It doesn't sound to me like your tank is overstocked or that it is too new for the number and type of fish you have.

2. It does sound to me like you are overfeeding. Again, I stay on the conservative side, but I feed 1-2 cubes a WEEK in my 75g tank plus some pellets every now and then. I also put in a 1x3" strip of nori daily. I think this is where your problem is. I would suggest cutting your current feeding regiment into every other or every second day.

 

Dead animals are a problem too, but your tank will take that up fairly quickly. Unless it was something very large you wouldn't still be fighting that, I wouldn't think.

 

Fighting conchs are good for the sandbed and are welcome members of the sandstirring family.