JerryJ February 11, 2011 Share February 11, 2011 I bought a red firefish last week that was itchy...dashing against the sand to scratch himself. Otherwise he seemed OK...active, eating well, not skittish, good color, etc. I gave him a freshwater dip in a small bowl so I could watch what happened. Within a minute, he developed about a dozen white bumps on his skin...clearly parasites that were expanding and becoming opaque in the fresh water. In a couple minutes the bumps fell off. They were about a millimeter in size and shaped like flattened, slightly elongated disks. Sort of like rice grains that had been squashed in one dimension, or little maggots. So, does this observation tell me anything about the type of parasite I'm dealing with? Does the size and shape of what came off allow me to discriminate between velvet, ich, or some sort of fluke? Prior to the dip, the fish had no clearly visible spots...just some diffuse, slightly raised bumps on his sides that I could see when viewing along the length of the fish. I'm thinking velvet or ich parasites would be smaller when they fell off the fish, but I don't know. These things, when they were exposed to fresh water, were almost as big as the fish's eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 11, 2011 Share February 11, 2011 Possibly a parasitic cirolanid isopod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr February 11, 2011 Share February 11, 2011 Ive been told by alot of Fish suppliers that fish coming out of indo-pacific can have a type of flatworm on them. I've seen them before... a FW dip explodes their cells, prazi also works. They almost look like scales that fell off, right? under a scope they look like argulus(fish lice). Freshwater dipping works great on these lil buggers, I usuaklly dip the fish for 45sec- 1 min. They are releatively harmless unless a secondary infection sets in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryJ February 11, 2011 Author Share February 11, 2011 Thanks for the responses...I guess my main question is really whether the size and shape of these things rules out infection by single-celled infectious agents like velvet and ich. The suggestions of isopods and flatworms seem to confirm this. Am I right? Just what do velvet and ich look like after a freshwater dip, anyway? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney February 11, 2011 Share February 11, 2011 Dip every fish you buy. I had those in my tank before. And your right they look like scales when they fall off. I had a break out so bad i broke down my whole tank. And treated my fish . My sohal scratched so much on the rocks he had a open sore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 11, 2011 Share February 11, 2011 Thanks for the responses...I guess my main question is really whether the size and shape of these things rules out infection by single-celled infectious agents like velvet and ich. The suggestions of isopods and flatworms seem to confirm this. Am I right? Just what do velvet and ich look like after a freshwater dip, anyway? Thanks! I don't think it's velvet or ich for the reasons that you've cited above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr February 12, 2011 Share February 12, 2011 If it is what I call a flatworm, i wonder how they reproduce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryJ February 12, 2011 Author Share February 12, 2011 F&Fmgr, Yes, that's certainly a key issue. I have the fish in isolation, and I think freshwater dips can eliminate these parasites, based on what I saw. Since this was the first fish in my tank, the display tank is now fallow, and I don't want to reintroduce any fish until the next generation hatches and dies out. Assuming, of course, that they reproduce by way of eggs and don't use an intermediate host. That was why I introduced this topic...if I can identify the parasite I'll know what to do next. Thanks for your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr February 12, 2011 Share February 12, 2011 I have a a disease book by Edward Noga, scoured it a couldn't find em. I have only been seeing these things come in on fish w/i the last 2 years so i don't know how much lit is out there on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryJ February 12, 2011 Author Share February 12, 2011 Thanks so much for your efforts to find information on this. Are you familiar with the appearance of gill/body flukes in the genus Benedenia? Is there a reason to think these are not Benedenia? I know it's pretty much impossible to make a postive ID without a picture of these guys. In the absence of detailed information, my thinking is, based on what I saw, that these little monsters are quickly killed by freshwater. If they're not protozoa, I assume they are external, not drilled deeply into the fish, and therefore exposed to the ambient water. The dip also seems like a good diagnostic tool, since it makes them easily visible. So (assuming the fish doesn't die from stress) I will repeat the dip in a couple weeks. I'm thinking I'll see no parasites, meaning that the fish was cleared of parasites by the first dip. Then, after about four weeks of fallow time, I can introduce a goodly amount of water from the display tank (maybe even some sand) into the hospital tank. Wait a couple weeks, dip again. If there are still parasites in the display tank, I'd think they will have latched onto the fish by then, and I'll see them in anoher FW dip. If not, maybe I can convince myself it's safe to put him back in the display tank. I don't want him to get reinfected, since he's so hard to catch. I don't want to have to take all the live rock out again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr February 12, 2011 Share February 12, 2011 I believe they could be Benedenia, but the ones I see are usually larger. About 2000 microns it says in Noga's book, which i think is about 1/16". Is that what youre seeing? it says that most species reproduce by eggs, a few of the type we are seeing( capsalids) lay eggs in gill tissue, the rest lay eggs that settle til the larval stage. The viviparous type of monogeneans are life bearers. I don't know if any capsalids are viviparous. Sean PS if you want to see the book, you can always visit and have a looksee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryJ February 12, 2011 Author Share February 12, 2011 Well, what came off the fish were about a millimeter (1000 microns). They may not have been full grown, but on the other hand they probably got expanded somewhat by absorption of fresh water. On the fish they were almost invisible. In your experience with these things (assuming yours and mine are the same organism), did you observe anything relating to their ability to infect a tank and come back after the fish had been dipped? I'm concerned, obviously, about the need for a fallow period and how long. Thanks so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr February 12, 2011 Share February 12, 2011 They can come back for sure, leaving the tank empty of fish, if possible, is a very good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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