gudgreef March 2, 2005 Share March 2, 2005 I was about to feed the tank some of the Vita Diet from the meeting when I noticed one of the ingredients is copper proteinate. Is that a problem?Just wanted to make sure. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelg March 2, 2005 Share March 2, 2005 Tom, I just wrote to them inquiring for a response. I looked it up and it is commonly used in animal diets, but could not find a specific ref for inverts..... my guess is that it will not cause any problems as the concentration would be way minimal, but let;s see what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUsnakebyte March 2, 2005 Share March 2, 2005 THANK YOU!!! I was going to try this tonight or tomorrow, but I will now wait. That is also a great point - checking out all ingredients of any new food you use... something I obviously need to be more cautious about... Cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clownfish4 March 2, 2005 Share March 2, 2005 I tried mine when I got home from the meeting. I've had no ill effects except that my fish won't touch the stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leishman March 2, 2005 Share March 2, 2005 Agreed, fish won't touch it. I have 26 fish and only the Vlamingi Tang will eat it. Not giving up though, I'll give it a few more tries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatortailale March 3, 2005 Share March 3, 2005 I got samples of this up at Boston MACNA and have used it weekly with no ill effects and fish chow down on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Siders March 3, 2005 Share March 3, 2005 I wish I had won of the raffles for that stuff because the sample size is too big for my damsel. <_< Oh well, I guess I will wait to see if they respond on its ingredients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabrerad March 3, 2005 Share March 3, 2005 All, This got me wondering as well. I posted a question about copper proteinate in the reef chemistry forum at RC. Perhaps Mr. Holmes-Farley will have some insight. I am also interested in what Michael finds out. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelg March 3, 2005 Share March 3, 2005 From Matthew Boyd: Michael, You present us with a very good question and we here definitely understand the conerns of more serious aquarists with a reef system. First of all let me say there is not risk of any kind of 'copper' contamination hurting a reef system due to our foods. As I will explain below. We put Copper into our foods as it is essential to the health of a living organism. Copper helps regulate metabolism and is required for the absorption of iron. A copper deficiency will create the same symptons as an iron deficiency in a living organism. Copper used for the treatment of aquarium diseases is Copper sulfate, Copper proteinate is a more mild form of copper which is safer to use in a fish food as a supplement. Copper sulfate contains sulfuric acid which is the compond you have to be worried about with your inverts in a reef system. The ingredients of our fish foods before being infused with Vita-chem is all micro encapsulated in order to protect nutrients or minerals from being absorbed by your tank water before any living organisms may desire them. FYI, we sent Anthony Calfo our coral feed which is a kind of powderized versioin of the fish foods made for corals. The coral feed also contains copper proteinate which is a much safer form of copper to be used as a supplment. If you have any more questions please call us and ask for me I will be happy to talk with you further. Or will be happy to at MACNA sit down and discuss whatever you would like. Best Regards, MAtthew Boyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Stearns March 3, 2005 Share March 3, 2005 Good to know about whatthe manufactors position is- Just would add that I am having the same issue of fish being fond of it. I occasionally use several different dry food and my tangs who absolutely chase down any morsel that hits the tank are not very fond of this food-- sorry just reporting what my fishes reactions to these small pellets. I do feed some other small pellets that are about the same size, so pellets are not the issue. Bangai and six line actually spit it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mikesroth March 3, 2005 Share March 3, 2005 Well I have been using the sample, and my one Clownfish likes it, and it is too big (we think) for the other one to eat it. I may break out the other containers and see if there is a smaller food for him. Also, I dont think they are truly slow sinking as they just drop to the bottom as the other foods I was using. I was thinkign they'd take their time dropping so the fish would have time to grab them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardofNOVA March 3, 2005 Share March 3, 2005 Mike, There are 3 sizes to the containers, I FINALLY realized that! I first thought it was 3 different types, but from what I can see, they are just 3 different sizes. My fish have seemed to take to it OK so far. I currently use 9 different types of foods for feeding my tanks. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocko918 March 3, 2005 Share March 3, 2005 My yellow watchman loves it but no one else touches it. Works good for me because i some times have a hard time getting food to the goby. This way no one else likes it so it gets to him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabrerad March 3, 2005 Share March 3, 2005 Here is the response I got from Dr. Holmes-Farley in response to my question if this form of copper is potentially dangerous: It could be, if there was enough of it present. If it is inteded for fish only, there might be too much for a reef. I don't suppose it says how much actual copper is present, does it? Certainly, all, or nearly all organisms need some copper. It is all a question of amount. Michael, I read through the reply you received from Mathew Boyd. If there is a potential toxicity issue may come down to how much copper is present. The above reponse indicates to me that there is a danger if too much copper proteinate is present in the feed. With respect to the differences stated between copper sulfate and copper proteinate, what Mr. Boyd stated leaves me a bit confused. First off, it is not just the sulfate in copper sulfate that is bad or we would treat fish disease with just sulfate. Second, I am a bit confused about the role of adding a chelating agent (copper proteinate is a chelated complex of copper) to copper in nutrition. My understanding is that chelates, when used in diet supplements, are intended to make the metal ion more bioavailable to the organism being fed (i.e. get them across lipid based tissues etc). Chelates, however, are also used to treat metal poisoning as they form a water soluble complex with the metal and dramatically reduce absorbtion so they can be excreted. So are chelates used in nutrition to both increase bioavailability to tissues and also keep the solubility down to a level where too much is not absorbed? That's what confuses me. Regardless, the copper is included in animal feeds and I think we can assume there is going to be copper exposure when the feed is used. So the question is, in my mind at least, how much is safe? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabrerad March 3, 2005 Share March 3, 2005 Next comment: Yes, I wouldn't not use a food just because it has copper in it (all do), but if it is intentionally added at some unknown concentration that is not claimed by the manufacturer to be safe for inverts, I'd avoid it. FWIW, I discuss copper levels in foods (natural seafoods and formulated commercial preparations) in this article: Reef Aquaria with Low Soluble Metals http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-...ature/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cjm033 March 4, 2005 Share March 4, 2005 my baby clown loves this stuff, i just crunch it up into particles small enough for him. also my 2 acans and candycanes got some of this on them and ate it the last 2 days and they seem to be doing fine. -Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mightymouse March 5, 2005 Share March 5, 2005 my fish hate it they will suck it in and spit it back out ive tryed it a few tiems dropping just a few pellets at a time and they wont touch it neither will my red sea mimic blenny but they devour my osi marine blend flaek food and the frozen mysis shrimp so ive given up on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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