Rock Making

[Guest clownfish4]

Anyone else want to have a rock making party?  We can make some good pourus rocks out of cement.  Then, each person can do what he pleases with theirs or we can put them in a large bucket and cure them all together.

 

With time, they will become live and this is the cheapest rock you will find, guaranteed :D .  Anyone interested?

[Guest clownfish4]

Here is a thread I started at RC to get help with the process.

 

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=395018

[HowardofNOVA]

Mike,

Check with Luke, I just gave him my instructions.

Use 5 parts Aragonite and 1 part Portland Concrete only.

Mixing thick in say a 5g bucket or if you have it mixing trough.

Add water s-l-o-w-l-y so as not to get too wet. A little will go along way.

Recommend a deep plastic container.

Get a bag of regular sand and dampen a tad, just enough to form mold without sides falling in.

I've built 3 tripods that work great for around $20. Saved about $150 for the 50-60# that I replaced over LR.

Note: In MY OPINION, these work great for setting your your base, but believe the outer rocks should be live corals, for nothing more than for asthetics.

I might have a pictures to share of mine soon, will post then.

Oh, the bad side, it takes about 2-3 MONTHS for it to cure before you can even think about putting into your tank!

[Guest clownfish4]

How do you make it pourus?  Guy at RC said to use pasta because it will dissolve??

[HowardofNOVA]

The 5 to 1 ratio worked great. When you would pick them out of the barrel duing curing, the water would run out for ever like a sponge.

Luke mentioned that Craig used the pasta recipe, has sound merit and could do the trick!

[ctreptow]

I was thinking the same thing... I just found this article today from the in the WAMAS diy page, live rock

 

Then went to Southern States in Manassas (Thanks Gary) and picked up the sand and some crushed oyster shells. The shells seem like they will make a very porous rock when done.

 

I hope to start some this week and see.

 

As for the party I'm in.

 

Chris

[Guest clownfish4]

How is this Saturday for the party?  I figure it'll be easy because it is also the day of my tour and fragging.  Howard, I would be very pleased if you would attend.  If you can, would you mind bringing the supplies and we can divide the amount between all interested and pay you back.  I'm sure it won't cost you more than about $20?  If you can't make it, please let me know and tell me everything I need to get.  I figure we can start about 1:00, same time the tour starts.  Anyone interested please post so we can buy enough supplies.  All are welcome, including officers:D.  My address is located in my tank tour topic in general discussion.

[ctreptow]

Hey Guys

 

I just finished molding my 1st cement live rock. I used the oyster shell recipe and it really seemed to work well. The mix was very porous and molded well. I made an arch that I want to use in the 150G tank I am planning. I will let you all know how it comes out when I remove it in a couple of days.

 

I figure for the 150 I will make about 100 Lbs of concrete rock and add 100lbs of purchased. I have about 50 pounds in my current 30G tank that I will be retiring when the 150 comes online.

 

I'm sorry I can't make the party on Sat but I know you guys will make some great rock.

 

Chris

[Aquariareview]

I have made over 5 tons of the stuff and there is more to making it right than you might think

 

Here is a formula that has worked for me

 

The mix:

• Shredded Plastic   35%

• Fine Aragonite Sand   20%

• Crushed Oyster Shells or Coarse Aragonite   10%

• Portland Cement   27%

• NaCl   5%

• Na2CO3   1%

• Ice (volume ice/1 volume aggregate)

(All percentages are by weight as volume percentages vary by aggregate type. Large deviations will definitely be possible)

The amount of ice and its size are very important. If you use too much, it tends to make the mix get too wet when it melts and the desired porosity will not be achieved. Too much ice will also make the pieces very weak. The piece will be stronger if you increase the amount of cement mix compared to aggregate and ice, but I don't think it looks quite as good and also seems to take longer to colonize. If the ice is too small, it will not leave holes behind when it melts. If it is too big, there will locations of extreme weakness in your rock. For me, a range from say large BB's to marble size works well. I strongly suggest making very small test quantities until you find a procedure and formula that works for you. I followed this plan while trying to develop the technique. It really cuts down on waste and unwanted rocks.

Mixing

• Pre-crush the ice and leave in freezer

• Pre-mix Portland cement, NaCl, and Na2CO3 and put in freezer

• Pre-mix the aggregate ingredients in your cement mixing bucket and put in freezer(I have always kept every thing cooled before mixing to minimize melting during mixing but this may not be necessary. After all, I then add water to make the mix)

• Add cement mixture to aggregate and mix while still dry

• Add ice to mixture and begin mixing

• Add water SLOWLY and mix between additions until you have a somewhat "dry" uniform paste/slurry.(It’s easy to over shoot, as the water you add also melts ice and you get more water than you expect.)

• Form pieces in a bed of aragonite sand using shapes you find desirable and sprinkle with oyster shells Do not bury the freshly made rock as the weight will reduce the effect of the ice

The curing

Cure for at least two days (three is better) before moving the piece. These pieces do not approach their final strength very quickly. I have broken quite a few by losing patience. There is a lot of silicates( see below) that need to be cured out . 3 months in a kiddy pool with a water change every 3 days.

Test the ph after 8 weeks, right after a water change and again in 48 hours. If it does not rise start salt water cure for 3 weeks. Then use

 

Portland Cement - A mixture of calcium and aluminum silicates that will hydrate upon addition of water to form crystalline materials with high compressive strength (when properly cured). The major components of Portland cement types one and two are:

• Tricalcium silicate - 3CaO.Si2O3 - about 55%

• Dicalcium Silicate - 2CaOSi2O3 - about 25%

• Tricalcium aluminate - 3CaOAl2O3- about 10%

• Tretracalciumaluminoferrite - CaO.Al2O3.Fe2O3 *

• Other inorganics - about 2%

• Taken from a cement manufacturer's web site but the name given suggests there should be a four in front of the CaO in this formula. I believe type three to be a slight modification of the above compositions.

[Guest clownfish4]

Wow, that is quite a recipe Nathan!  I really hope someone with experience will be able to make it.  Particularly, you and/or Howard.  Any other methods?

[HowardofNOVA]

Hey guy,

Wish I could attend, but leaving for FL on Friday. I'm going to be at the house after 9:30pm. If anyone wants to stop in, I got about 70-80# of portland cement left over and have a large plastic container (type you slide under a bed) with about 40-50# of sand that you guys can have. Will probably need 1 more bag of sand from HomeDepot, Just return the container after the cement sets up.

Call me on my cell around that time. 703-899-6209

Howard

[Guest clownfish4]

Well, I think I am going to have to reschedule this party for another day.  Not many people can make it and not a whole lot of people have shown interest.  Perhaps next weekend?  My tank tour is still this Sat.

[Aquariareview]

Another cool trick I have used is to put Rit Dye (Purple) in the mix. The darker rock it makes seems to colonize faster with coraline.

 

If you put this off until August I will come and help.

[Lee Stearns]

If Nathan is going to be there -I would love to participate to glean from his experience, and be happy to bring some of the ingredients- keep me posted on when and where

[Guest clownfish4]

August is fine with me.  We can always do it at my house, but if someone else has more space or anything, that is fine.

[craby]

I read somewhere that if you drill plastic pipe slowly it makes spirals like pencil shavings and really leaves alot of voids when used in the live rock. It is also supposed to add stability & strength, while making it lighter. I plan to make some LR soon & would love to attend in August.

Luke C.

[Guest clownfish4]

How is August 7th for everyone?

[dbartco]

Would be interested inattending on 7th

[ctreptow]

August 7 may work for me. I have made some nice oystercrete rock over the past couple of weeks and I have some supplies to contribute.

 

I have almost 70lbs of cement and about 30 pounds of oyster shell.

 

Chris

[Guest mikesroth]

We would be interested, just not sure all of what I need.

[craby]

Where are we all meeting up at?

[Guest clownfish4]

Ok, I think we should all supply our own cement.  I need about 120 lbs. of rock, so I think this would be easiest if everyone brought enough cement to make their rock.  Then, I think we should all take our rock, once hardened, and be responsible for curing it.  However, if you can't cure it, I would be willing to help you out.  We can do it at my house, or anyone else who may be closer to the middle for location.  I live in Springfield, VA.  What else do we need besides concrete?  I believe sand and plastic containers, then depending on which route we go, oyster shells or ice or something to that effect.

[Guest clownfish4]

Ok, unless anyone has an objection, I think I will host it at my house.  I guess we will start at 12:00 and go until we are done.  I have a nice open driveway and a good sized lawn and lots of basement space.  My address is 7807 Carrleigh parkway Springfield, VA 22152 and the party is August 7th from noon on.  If you are definately going to come, please pm me and remember, you are responsible for your own materials.  So either bring them with you or ask someone else that will be there to pick it up for you.  Hope to see a lot of you here!

[Guest mikesroth]

Curing?  Is that the process of making it 'Live' or is that a cement term? hehe

 

Also, do we have a 'recipe' that we want to follow, so if the wifage is ok with this, I know what to buy?

 

Michael

[Guest clownfish4]

Curing is the process of making it live.  Supposedly takes about 3 months.  As for a recipe, there are a couple we can try.  The easiest will be to take 2 parts sand, 1 part cement, and either ice or spagetti shells to make it porus.  As well, you can add pvc piping to it to make cool tunnels and stuff.  So if you want 100 lbs of rock, you will need 100 lbs of cement and 200 lbs of sand(I think).  I don't know how long it will take to harden, but I assume about 2 days.