Green algae bloom and ich outbreak - help?

[Amuze]

Hello,

 

My tank recently went developed a bloom of green algae which accumilates rather quickly on my glass. Cleaning it only results in it returning to cover the glass within 30 minutes or so. I assume this is because it's not being removed from the water and only reattaching itself to the glass, sand and rocks.

 

Today I woke up so see my Kole Tang suffering from ich and my Yellow Tang is starting to develop white spots as well. I did not have time to set a quarantine tank this morning, I'm hoping to do so once I get home. I'm limited on what I have and my LFS is closed today.

 

Could the ich be a result of the blooming algae? Perhaps the fish were stressed from too much algae? Also, one of my T5 bulbs is an 18,000K bulb. Do you think lowering the bulb to a 10,000K bulb will help deter the algae and still be enough light for some inverts/anemones? I noticed that when the lights are off at night, the algae does not form to the glass.

 

My last questions are will a UV sterilizer and chemi-pure help this? I'm running a larger canister filter (Rena) and am not able to run a sump below for an overflow set up or a protien skimmer in my condo. This limits my filtration, so I'm relying purely on flow, mechanical filtration, live rock and live sand.

 

Water quality is good, Nitrate and Nitrite are zero, salinity is 1.023, PH is around 8.0 - 8.2 I believe, hard to tell with the test kit I have and/or strips.

 

I raised my lighting hoping to deter the algae, we'll see when I return home. Not sure what to do about the ich though. I don't want to use copper.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks.

Edited May 12, 2008 by jamesbuf

[jamesbuf]

Get a UV sterilizer and it will help with the ich and the algae. What size tank do you have? What kind of skimmer? Tell us some more about your setup: equipment, more detail on lights, etc,.

[yauger]

the UV will help prevent future outbreaks of ICH... I suggest performing a water change and reducing your light cycle to only 2hours a day until you get a hold of the algae outbreak. run carbon and try not to over feed (even better to not feed for 2 days) this will limit the amount of phosphates being added into your system. run some phosban in your media reactor mixed with your carbon and that should help also. perform some water test to figure out what is out of whack right now and try to find the source of the problem by eliminating one thing at a time... take it slow thought because you don't want to change things in your system too fast that will have a negative impact. Your lights running at 18K shouldn't be the problem BTW

[Amuze]

55G

Rena Filstar xP2 canister filter (No sump and no skimmer can be used for now). I'm using Biomax in the filter last.

Koralia 2 powerheads (x2) up top. These along with the return from the Rena create plenty of turbulence.

GLO T5 HO lighting (dual strip). One anitic bulb and one 18000K bulb. The GLO puts out a lot of light and doesn't get very hot, but they are very limited on anything else. No luner.

 

 

Not sure what UV to get as far as wattage goes. I know one amount is good to kill off algae and another higher amount kills of micro-organisms, but you can't accomplish both at the same time from what I've read.

 

MY main concern is the ich my Tangs have at the moment and what to do about it. I was thinking of dipping them in fresh water for a couple of minutes, but this really seems like it would only stress them out more and make it worse? Either way, the Kole will die soon (if not already before I get home).

 

I'm also considering breaking the tank down, sterilizing it and selling the lights off to go with a different set up. Marine Scene is the only place I can take the livestock to and get credit for them though. They are closed today.

 

I am also running carbon in the filter, and have done 2 water changes, the last one being yesterday. I will try running the lights for only 2 hours a day. Will that harm my anemone? Trying to figure it out properly as I want this set up to work out, but I don't want to loose livestock in the process. May be too late for the Tangs though. Bummer...

 

 

 

Thanks, I will try these things. I was also thinking the Rena isn't providing enough flow and if I'm going ot use a canister filter I should maybe switch to a larger one. Any thoughts?

Edited May 12, 2008 by audible

[jamesbuf]

55G

Rena Filstar xP2 canister filter (No sump and no skimmer can be used for now).

 

Thats your major problem with the algae. You're letting the nutrients build up and that promotes algae growth. Turning off the lights for a couple days won't do a thing. Its the setup that is defunct. If you're going to have large fish like tangs, and not use a skimmer, then you will always have algae problems. I personally don't see how your system can test zero for nitrates with the current setup you have, especially with a canister filter running on their. Ditch the canister filter. They not useful with saltwater setups. All they do is contribute to organic matter buildup and contribute to the nitrogen cycle.

[Amuze]

Thats your major problem with the algae. You're letting the nutrients build up and that promotes algae growth. Turning off the lights for a couple days won't do a thing. Its the setup that is defunct. If you're going to have large fish like tangs, and not use a skimmer, then you will always have algae problems. I personally don't see how your system can test zero for nitrates with the current setup you have, especially with a canister filter running on their. Ditch the canister filter. They not useful with saltwater setups. All they do is contribute to organic matter buildup and contribute to the nitrogen cycle.

 

Well, it wasn't my first choice, but it's what I had to do with, so I made an attempt. I've run sumps before with skimmers and biological filtration only. I'm in a condo now and that's really not an option for me to do here. I was hoping the canister would work, I've seen them work on others tanks and I do keep it clean of trapped food and such. My only concern with it was if the one I had provides enough water flow. The plan was to finish setting up a 125G I have in my dining room and move the tangs over to that tank once it's cycled. I definitely don't plan to keep them in a 55G when they grow larger. They are small to medium now. Maybe they don't have enough swimming room as it is in a 4 foot wide tank? There are 90G's that are only 4 feet wide with larger Tangs, so I don't know how much of that to really consider as fact. I know if they don't have enough swimming room they can get stressed, but 4 feet is 4 feet besides the depth, but how often have you observed your tangs swimming front to back? Now if we're talking about the amount of water verses the amount of waste, I can understand that. Wouldn't keeping a clean tank, filtration, and water changes combat that? I was applying the same thought to having an overstocked tank. They work for people who keep up with them. Wouldn't the same apply to a smaller set up?

 

I'm afraid you're absolutely right and I was skepitcal about trying this filtration...

 

Either way, this is another failed attempt at having a saltwater tank. My last one sprung a leak in the back at the overflow, which is part of the reason I do not want to run a sump in a condo. Another reason is my glass can't be drilled. I would have to buy another tank.

 

This was the last attempt at it. Thinking about breaking everything down tomorrow when I can take the rest of the livestock to an LFS.

 

I love this hobby and I want to learn more, but now may not be the right time.

 

Thanks for the help.

Edited May 12, 2008 by audible

[Amuze]

What would be a good price to pay for a 55G tank with a built in overflow? I'm thinking I should just pick up a better tank and run a sump with a skimmer underneath. I have a 20G I can use as a sump. I'd need to purchase a tank, pump and skimmer. Problem is can I use the live rock I have and let it run for a month before adding new livestock? I don't want the same micro organisms to remain. Would they die off without any live stock as the live rock cures again and the tank cycles? I'm also worried about any discoloration on my wall from the skimmer or evaporation... That has happened before.

 

I'm trying to weigh out my costs to remedy this situation with it being a total loss. The fish are a loss. If they are still alive tomorrow I'll take them to a LFS.

 

Or if anyone wants them and is local to Fairfax, they can PM me. Not sure on forum rules about price posting and what not. PM for price on all together. Need someone who can take all of the livestock mentioned at one time.

 

Medium size Yellow Eyed Kole Tang, Medium size Yellow Tang, Lawnmower Blenny, Coral Beauty Angel, Blue Velvet Damsel, Green bubble tip anem and a Cleaner Shrimp.

Edited May 12, 2008 by audible

[jamesbuf]

You don't have to have a sump with that size tank. The big thing missing from your system is a protein skimmer. You could keep the 55gal you have and simply get a good hang on skimmer, like a Deltec MCE600 or a Remora Pro. The Deltec is designed so that if the cup overflows, it flows back into the skimmer, so no chance of overflow. You can get the Remora Pro with a drain in the skimmer cup to avoid overflows as well. My Mom's tank is sumpless and I'm having alot of success with hers. I used a Remora Pro first and it worked great. I then found a good deal on a used MCE600 on Reefcentral, so I upgraded. Best hang on skimmer I've ever seen or used. I do still have the Remora Pro (with drain) and am looking to sell it. Drop me a PM if you're interested.

 

You don't need a canister filter if the main reason you're using it is for flow. Thats what powerheads are for. You can, however, use the canister for running carbon and/or phosphate remover. You just have to be diligent about making sure the sponges inside stay clean of decaying organic matter.

 

You're not that far off from being successful, so please don't get discouraged. With a good hang on skimmer and a UV sterilizer, you'll be surprised how far you'll come along in a few months.

[Amuze]

You don't have to have a sump with that size tank. The big thing missing from your system is a protein skimmer. You could keep the 55gal you have and simply get a good hang on skimmer, like a Deltec MCE600 or a Remora Pro. The Deltec is designed so that if the cup overflows, it flows back into the skimmer, so no chance of overflow. You can get the Remora Pro with a drain in the skimmer cup to avoid overflows as well. My Mom's tank is sumpless and I'm having alot of success with hers. I used a Remora Pro first and it worked great. I then found a good deal on a used MCE600 on Reefcentral, so I upgraded. Best hang on skimmer I've ever seen or used. I do still have the Remora Pro (with drain) and am looking to sell it. Drop me a PM if you're interested.

 

You don't need a canister filter if the main reason you're using it is for flow. Thats what powerheads are for. You can, however, use the canister for running carbon and/or phosphate remover. You just have to be diligent about making sure the sponges inside stay clean of decaying organic matter.

 

You're not that far off from being successful, so please don't get discouraged. With a good hang on skimmer and a UV sterilizer, you'll be surprised how far you'll come along in a few months.

 

Thanks. I've given running a skimmer when I get home some thought. My only problem with a hang on (and I have one) is that it leaves a residue on the wall. Normally wouldn't be a big deal except for this place, painting it over would be expensive. So I decided in the future to try an run a sump underneath with a skimmer in the sump along with my heater. Less clutter above, the better. I had success with this before, just not this time around and not with the Canister. It was really quite and this is in a bedroom so I was hoping it would work out. I don't have a UV, but I will pick one up today or tomorrow. I will also research the skimmers you mentioned and try to source one of them. The skimmer I have now is a Bak-Pak (?) and it worked on my previous set up, just lef ta small mess on the wall as mentioned...

 

What I can try to do is set up the protein in the back and let in run to see what improvements it makes. I'm sure it will, but I'll need to monitor it. Eventually I'd like to get rid of the tank and go back to one with a built in overflow. I'm about to run a syphon set up or a hang on overflow in a 2nd floor condo though. Lol.

 

I've seen set ups runs very well on a protein skimmer alone for filtration and added carbon I guess. Sound right?

 

For today and tommorrow I need to worry more about my Tangs though. Will dipping them in fresh water for 2 minutes rid them of the ich temporarily or is hope lost without the access to a QT (which I will also set up before adding livestock again)?

Edited May 12, 2008 by audible

[martin]

You could get a HOB refugium and a HOB skimmer and us an UV like a closed loop to help out. I would at least use the skimmer/refugium combo to help out with the tank. I set up a UV with a mag 2 and a gate valve to control the flow to curb my algea and ick problems, and massive water changes.

 

Let me know if you need macro algea to put in your refugium if you get one.

 

Take the canister filter out and shoot holes in it so that it doesn't hurt any other tanks in the future.

[Amuze]

You could get a HOB refugium and a HOB skimmer and us an UV like a closed loop to help out. I would at least use the skimmer/refugium combo to help out with the tank. I set up a UV with a mag 2 and a gate valve to control the flow to curb my algea and ick problems, and massive water changes.

 

Let me know if you need macro algea to put in your refugium if you get one.

 

Take the canister filter out and shoot holes in it so that it doesn't hurt any other tanks in the future.

 

Lol, if you only knew how tempted I am to have the first aquatic gun range.