Feasability Study: Remote water room

[stevil]

MattB's new tank inspired me a bit to think about putting my RO/DI unit and water change equipment remotely in the basement. I'd like some input on assessing the feasability of running ATO from my RO/DI and then having drain and refill plumbing from the basement, through the wall and behind my tank. My tank is situated above my furnace/laundy room in my townhouse on the wall shared by my neighbors unit.

 

These are MattB's pics that got me thinking:

 

 

 

Caveat: I'm not so handy!

Caveat: I won't drill through the HW floors - want to drill up through the inside wall.

 

If I were to do this project, I'd need to get it done in a day... or at least the upstairs portion (securing the pipes, patching the drywall...)

 

I'm thinking I could drill up through the basement (who's walls and ceiling are partially open in the laundry room), cut out some of the drywall, secure the plumbing, patch drywall and go... but I'm sure there's some details I'm missing...

 

Checklist/Shopping list:

1" drill bit (is this enough for drain and return?

20' 1" PVC

Stud finder

Saw to cut drywall (no idea here...)

Drywall patch kit (no idea here...)

PVC pipe

RO/DI pipe and or tubing

Brackets to hold the PVC pipe and tubing against the wall

 

 

Q: Would the pressure of my RO/DI storage tank be sufficient to drive water 10' vertically? I can measure the PSI - anyone know what PSI would be adequate? I'd be plumbing it into a Kalk reactor.

Q: What kind of pump would I need to push water from a saltwater mixing tub to my sump?

Q: Any tools recommend to get at the tight space (e.g. cutting the drywall)

Q: Any shopping items I'm overlooking?

Q: Anyone want to help?

 

Here's what my space looks like:

 

 

[DaveS]

I'm not a carpenter but I have done enough work around the house to have a few comments. I'd say the biggest problem you'll have is enough work area between the wall and side of the tank stand. Can you move the tank over to create more working space?

 

Also, looking at the shots from downstairs, I see what look like 3 2x4s next to each other. My guess is that they are more than just that. Where is the footer for the wall that you need to drill through? Hopefully it's not in that area.

[rioreef]

Looking at Matt's plumbing, he goes to flexible tubing after his plumbing comes out of the wall. Now with your limited space doing exactly what he has does would be a difficult process. If you can drill up through the base of the wall from the basement you could then limit your wall cut by having the plumbing run coming up through the wall being all flexible tubing (black). In that tight space, gluing up the PVC would be hard, one arm only. Chances of not getting a tight leak free seal would be difficult.

 

 

What ever you do, make sure the plumbing is on the inside of the wall insulation and stuff some extra in there also. You don't want your lines freezing.

 

What about from the other side of the tank. Put a plant in from of it and you wont see it.

 

Another choice would be to go with the smallest diameter tubing for the drain/refill line (ATO line is a 1/4 tubing already?) and drill at an angle through the base board on the wall and down through the wall plate. This way you would have no drywall work and if the tank is ever moved, the baseboard can easily be replaced! One-arm drilling is easier than one-arm drywalling.

[EBR]

Wow -- not sure what to say, but I'm glad I could bring something to the table for others. It's an awesome way to do water changes -- so much better than bucket brigades. Some thoughts:

 

- I totally agree with everything that DaveS and rioreef have said. When running the PVC, I had the advantage of drilling from the top-down. It took just one time (years ago) to learn my lesson when I drilled up from the basement only to come out in the middle of a finished floor -- it would be REALLY bad to come up through your neighbor's floor (AH!). If looks and aim are important, drill from the finished side.

 

- How are you planning to control the DI input -- I suppose a float valve of sorts? If you can, in fact, run the DI tubing all the way to the tank, I like the idea of just going through the baseboard, and putting a plant in front of it. As for the head height, my RO line is split off and goes to the fridge for drinking water -- but I had to add a booster pump since we have well water and the pressure sucks (oxy moron, I know -- so sue me ;-)

 

- Of course, that doesn't solve the salt water delivery or drainage issues. In all honesty, if a) moving the tank for a day is not an option, and b) access on the right side is no better than the left side, I would seriously consider drilling right through the bottom of the stand and through the floor. Hardwood flooring is not that difficult to patch later on (is it hardwood or laminate? the latter may not be so easy). But, my first choice would be to move the tank on a Friday, run the plumbing and patch/paint on Saturday, and put it all back on Sunday. Of course, real life and spouses (I say this not knowing you or whether you're married) may have something different to say about chewing up an entire weekend like that, you know ;-)

 

- Back to plumbing -- I'd like to see what is on the other side of the tank -- do you have a photo of that? I'm also not sure how some things downstairs line up with upstairs. From your series of photos, I suppose the point of access you are considering is between the joists in the 6th photo, behind the insulation (which is where the sill plate would be)? Where does the triple-truss line up with the tank? Is the wall to the left of the tank actually an air chase to the upstairs? If so, I see there is some plumbing next to the air ducts in the basement, which leads me to think that perhaps there is some dead-space in the wall immediately to the left of the tank -- perhaps you could run the pipes into the chase (or between the studs in that short interior wall) and exit to the right, into the left side of the stand. Again, plants.

 

Looking forward to more...

 

Matt

[EBR]

I thought of something this morning that I just wanted to make clear on my set up -- the FW delivered (manually) from the basement will go into a 5g bucket under the stand. Top offs are then made (automatically) from that into the sump. I'm not sure if that was clear from my thread.

HTH.

[rioreef]

Then only two holes would be needed in the baseboard, 1/2 pipe would minimize the size of the holes and still be sufficient for a water change using pumps.

[stevil]

Thanks everyone.

 

Moving the tank isn't really an option.... so yes I'd agree the workspace would be tight, but not impossible? There's about 6" between the tank stand and the wall on the side and about 4" in the back. My tank stand is open in the back.

 

As far as the 3 2x4's next to each other I'll try and get a better shot... I just went and looked and my best guess is those 3 2x4's are right under the 6" gap on the 2nd floor by my tank... so, I probably will have a difficulte time drilling through them? I'm not sure what you mean by the footer though...

 

I like the idea of drilling through the baseboard. My first desire is to eliminate filling and sloughing freshwater as top-off on a daily basis... if I had to fill and dump a bucket a week for a water change that would still be a big improvement.

[EBR]

Moving the tank isn't really an option.... so yes I'd agree the workspace would be tight, but not impossible? There's about 6" between the tank stand and the wall on the side and about 4" in the back. My tank stand is open in the back.

Yeah, but it's so much easier to say that _I_ would move the tank when, in fact, it isn't my tank. And no, nothing is impossible, really. If you do have access through the stand to the wall, then all the better.

 

As far as the 3 2x4's next to each other I'll try and get a better shot... I just went and looked and my best guess is those 3 2x4's are right under the 6" gap on the 2nd floor by my tank... so, I probably will have a difficulte time drilling through them? I'm not sure what you mean by the footer though...

Those 2x4 actually look like the underside of some trusses, and if so, you might be able to drill a modest hole right through them without losing structural integrity -- so long as the hole is in the middle, and not along the edge. As for the "footer", think of a wall being a bunch of vertical 2x4s with another 2x4 above and below -- I think what DaveS was referring to was the bottom plate of the wall.

 

I like the idea of drilling through the baseboard. My first desire is to eliminate filling and sloughing freshwater as top-off on a daily basis... if I had to fill and dump a bucket a week for a water change that would still be a big improvement.

I like this option the best, too. The flexible electrician drill bits come in all sizes -- I've got a 4' auger and t works wonders, especially when you have a long reach in a tight space.

[rioreef]

If you drill the baseboard. Drill a pilot hole first, This way the larger bit will not skip and run down the board to your hardwood floor. Best put a scrap piece of plywood on the floor to protect it. Remember the angle of your pipe/tubing will be at and drill for that angle.