NOOB Questions

[Guest webshout]

Hello Group! I've got a 75 gal FOWLR set up that has been running since 09/06. I've got midas blenny, clown (ocelaris sp?) hermits, snails, peppermint shrimp and a serpent star. I've also got a domino damsel in a 29 gal QT. He was harrassing the bejeezus out of the clown. Just recently learned, that is its nature, so in the QT he'll stay. Did lose a clown and yellow tang along the way. So my questions (and I apologize for the length of this post): I've been trying to run a Turboflotor 1000 skimmer in a 10 gal sump. DIY overflow with pvc and valve to limit flow into skimmer (w/o limit the cup runneth over.) Was working ok, until the return blew off the rio 2100 for the last time (3 times, no major floods). I guess with it dialed down on the return line (DIY pvc w/ ball valve), too much back pressure on the RIO. So I switched to a MAG 5 and still same problem. Dialed down to keep sump from running low. So, I figure I'll get a water level controller (off/low on/high) to control the outflow. Maybe w/o back pressure all will be well? Or should I go with a lower flow pump, 300 or less GPH?

 

My next question is about a DYI refugium. I had an acrylic enclosure built (23"x15x15) to fit under main tank as the 29 would not fit. It wil probably hold a bit more than 30 gal. My plan was to section it off to bioballs, refuge area (live sand and macro)) and return. I've been reading that I should skip the bio balls, increase the mount of LR in main tank and maybe do chemical media alone for refuge . I'm running a Magnum 350 with something to reduce phosphate (don't have name in front of me) and an Aquaclear 100 with chemipur. I'm also concerned about return from this as well, don't want to run the pump dry. So, thoughts?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

W.

[treesprite]

lots of liverock rubble in fuge = nature's bioballs

[flowerseller]

Welcome to WAMAS

 

I'm loosing you on questions #1 at a different point each time I read it.

Please clarify.

 

In questions #2, you won't need the bio balls and will the 29x15x15 replace the 10g sump?

[Guest webshout]

Well, ideally, I'd like to run the return from the sump to the refuge and then return to the main tank. Issue #1 is that the back pressure causes the return line to come off the return pump (Rio 2100). Or if it's really clamped down, the pump (Mag 5) makes noise (clacking) from the back pressure. I have to dial it down to avoid the sump running too low and burning out the pump. So, I think my options are to go with a lower flow return pump (300gph), use water level controller that will go on when sump is high and off when sump is low and no back pressure on pump, or put a T on the PVC and return some of the water to the sump to take the back pressure off the pump, or ..... something else? Suggestions?

 

I guess I'll skip the bio balls and have more LR in main tank and refuge.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

W.

[Rascal]

Still not following you with re: question #1. Maybe best to start with some terminology so we can be sure we are speaking the same language.

 

Return line = plumbing through which h20 returns from your sump to your display

return pump = pump which returns h2o from your sump to your display

H20 coming from your display tank to your sump does so through your drain lines

 

The turbofloater can be set up in 2 ways. Basically water is supplied either through a dedicated feed pump or directly from a drain line coming from the overflow. It is possible that 1 pump could do double duty as both a return pump and and feed pump, by the use of a "T" fitting on the return line and one or more ball valves. The large pump attached at both ends to the skimmer body is called the recirculation pump, or recirc pump for short.

 

So, how do you have yours set up? Are you teeing off the return line or the drain line? What is it using as a recirc pump? Older models used a RIO, yours should have an OceanRunner 2700 - which is an OR 2500 with a needlewheel impeller. IME, the skimmer works best with a constant flow through rate of 240 -290 gph (either maxijet 900 or 1200), and a stable water level in the sump.

 

As far as the tubing blowing off of the pumps due to back-pressure, this shouldn't happen no matter how much the pump is dialed back. Properly matched tubing and hosebarbs with zip ties should do the trick, or with the pumps you are using you could simply hard plumb it pvc, starting with threaded fittings at the exit of the pump. Hard plumbing from the pump will be much noisier though.

 

Are you really using only a Mag 5 as your return, and dialed back at that?

Edited June 18, 2007 by Rascal

[dchild]

Here's what I do on the return: make a T ~8" above the pump, then put a ball valve on that and run back to the sump. So part of the output of the pump is going straight back to the pump. Then use the second ball valve to control flow to the display tank. The more water returning to the sump, the less going to the display. Same effect but hopefully less back pressure on the pump.

 

I do not recommend controlling the return pump based on the water level. You need a balanced system, where the return runs 24x7 and the water level in the sump is stable, only decreasing due to evaporation.

 

Also you shouldn't (IMO) need to dial back your return solely to control your skimmer. Use a powerhead to feed the skimmer (I used a MJ900 when I had a TF1000) and let the return run full out. Or build a T similar to the one I described above, so that some of the water goes through the skimmer and some goes straight into the sump.

 

Make sure to keep up with your topoffs. An auto-top-off is ideal since you'll never get the TF1000 tuned right unless you have a stable water level in your sump.

[Guest webshout]

Thanks for the repsponse Rascal. I'll try to clarify.

I have 2 dedicated pumps, one for the skimmer and one for the return.

Turbofloter does have the OR 2700. The skimmer is direct fed by an overflow box. The return line runs from a pump in the sump back to the main tank. The original pump I used was a RIO 2100. The Rio 2100 outflow nozzle has a smooth fitting (not barbed or threaded), so even with a zip tie, the return line would slip off. The MAG 5 is the new return pump, and it has a threaded outflow nozzle, so no blow off. But, when I dial the MAG back, to avoid low level in the sump, it makes noise.

 

Both the inflow and return lines are 2 seperate pvc to flexible hoses which connect with the skimmer or the pump. I never noticed the water flow being noisy though.

 

The the OR feeds Turboflotor and I don't see how it can be plumbed to do double duty (see: http://www.aqua-medic.com/products/docs/T1...Stand_Alone.pdf page 2, picture D). Aquamedic suggests flow between 100-250 gph. When the flow is going like gang busters, the foam into the collection cup is super watery. When the inflow is limited, I get a limited amount of firm bubbles that flow over and collect as foul liquid in the collection cup.

 

So, maybe I could tee off the inflow to keep appropriate level in sump. Or do the water level control option, which would cycle the pump on and off.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks.

 

W.

[dchild]

But, when I dial the MAG back, to avoid low level in the sump, it makes noise.

 

Add more saltwater

 

As your return flow increases, the gravity-fed drain needs a greater weight of water to increase its flow. So the water level in the display rises. That's good, provided it does not overflow. But that means there is less water in the sump, and since a sump is smaller than the display, a small water level change in the display can mean a big water level change in the sump.

 

You're doing it right, there's just not enough total water volume in your system. I suggest you turn off your return and let the plumbing drain, then fill the sump with saltwater as full as you can (with reasonable safety margin). This is the highest the water will get in the event of a power outage. Now turn the return back on; hopefully there will be enough water to prevent the pump noise. You increase your total water volume and increase flow in your tank. It's win-win!

[Guest webshout]

Thanks for the responses. I'll try the tee and see what happens. I'll keep you all posted.

 

Thanks again.

 

W.

[Rascal]

 

The the OR feeds Turboflotor and I don't see how it can be plumbed to do double duty

 

No, I meant having the return (the Mag 5 in your case) do double duty as both a feed pump for the skimmer and a return pump. You could do this by putting in a T fitting so that some of the pump's outflow was directed to feed the skimmer while the rest went straight to the display. You could then use ball valves (or better yet gate valves) to adjust the amount of flow going to feed the skimmer until you got it just right. This is one possibility, but it is not what I would recommend for you.

 

Right now you are feeding your skimmer from your overflow drain. This means that to get the desired feed rate into your skimmer you have to restrict your return pump down to 150-250 gph. This is nowhere near enough flow for your tank, IMO. At the very least you should open that Mag 5 up all the way (I would actually recommend a larger pump, but we'll leave that discussion for later ). In your case, I don't see any reason why you would need to use a T to divert water back to your sump. That is one method for reducing the amount of flow delivered to the display when the return pump is more powerful than needed, but again I don't think that is your situation.

 

I tried many different configurations with the T-1000, and I found the one dchild suggests worked the best.

Let your overflow feed directly into your sump. Feed the skimmer with a MJ 900. In this application it will give you somewhere around 200 gph and uses very little power. It is also extremely important to keep a stable water level in your sump. Start looking at auto-top off options. You will find yourself constantly adjusting your skimmer to get the desired performance until you do.

 

Use the method dchild suggests: Turn off your return and let all the water that will drain into your sump do so. Add salt water until it is filled to the top. Then turn everything back on. Take a marker and make a line at the water level on the outside of your sump. This is the maximum amount of water your sump can hold without overflowing in the event of a power outage. If there is too much of a drop when you turn on your pump, it is most likely because there is too much water draining through your return plumbing when the pump is off. This can be easily fixed, so if it is a problem, let us know.

Edited June 19, 2007 by Rascal