Help with plumbing

[Guest beatle]

I recently picked up a 90g Perfecto tank with a corner overflow. It came with the plumbing kit for a standpipe and (what appears to be) 1 1/4" MPT bulkheads for the drain and return holes. My threaded adapters for these bulkheads go on for a thread or two and then tighten up as if the thread pitch is wrong - is it?

 

I've probably spent a good 3 hours already at various stores trying to piece together a setup that will connect everything together. They seem to have what I want according to some of the boxes, but nothing is actually where it's supposed to be. Where does everyone buy their stuff? I have a Quiet One 3000 as my return pump. It has 1" MPT that go on ok. I'd then need an adapter to go to 1.5" at some point, preferably near the return bulkhead so I can use a smaller (and less expensive) ball valve. I'm not sure if I need a ball valve on my drain line, but I'd like to have a 90 at the bottom that goes into a large tee that would have one end submerged and one above the surface. I hear this is a good way to reduce noise.

 

Any advice would be appreciated at this point! I'm ready to scrap the idea of a larger tank if this is what it takes!

[Charlie97L]

i have that same tank. those are glue slip fittings. the screw threads are for the bulkhead nut only, not to attach a fitting.

 

1" pvc will glue right in. hope that helps!

 

i wouldn't do a ball valve on the drain, just MO. the less restriction there, the better.

 

for plumbing ease, visit john at BRK, he's got loads of plumbing stuff in stock. take your pump, and your drain/return kit if you can to verify fittings. he helped me out when i decided i wanted to do everything with flex.

Edited December 5, 2006 by Charlie97L

[Guest beatle]

Ahhhhhh, 1" will make things so much easier. What's BRK?

[dandy7200]

I probably own more pvc parts than Homedepot lol. Where you at in alexandria?

[dschflier]

I am in Alexandria as well and have a bunch of spare parts. Or if you just need to see a setup up and running for something to refer to you are welcome to come by.

David

[bigJPDC]

Because the MegaFlow bulkheads on my tank are hose barbs, I used a small length of the plastic tubing in between the hard plumbing. It would make me really nervous if there was a hard connection to the tank. I know I've bumped and moved things around as I workd on the sump, and it also dampens vibration and noise. Disregard the red oval, I had a leak here at first, but have since replaced it.

 

 

HTH

jp

 

LOL, obviously this is a dry fit - don't forget hose clamps!!

 

jp

[Rascal]

It would make me really nervous if there was a hard connection to the tank. I know I've bumped and moved things around as I workd on the sump, and it also dampens vibration and noise.

 

I used Flexible PVC for the same reasons -- also reduces head loss due to friction if you've got a lot of turns to make.

 

This is also available at BRK (Blue Ribbon Koi: www.blueribbonkoi.com) and online. I have some extra 1" if you just needed a few small sections, but Johnny also carries the right PVC cement for flex pvc and this is important (I think).

[rooroo]

So just out of curiosity, do most people prefer the flex PVC? Can you pick this up at Home Depot?

[tygger]

I prefer hard pvc (looks cleaner), but flex pvc is easier to setup...

[Guest beatle]

Hmm, I have the pieces ready to cut and assemble, but I'm wondering about disassembly if I need to change things around. If I'm using PVC cement, what are my options? Do I just cut the PVC off and then rejoin it with a coupler if I have to? I don't even see myself being able to get the sump out of the tank without cutting the drain and return lines off.

[rooroo]

Use unions. Anywhere you have a long section of pipe use a union. Unless someone has a good reason not to use these (ie they leak, but I've never had a leak problem with them). This doesn't make it easier to rearrange things, just makes it easy to get out the sump and/or pump when time for cleaning (if you have an external pump that is). And I think you can only use these on hard PVC... might be wrong though.

Edited December 6, 2006 by rooroo

[Guest beatle]

I'm getting there. The standpipe that came with the tank produces the awful flushing noise. Charlie, did you modify your standpipe at all or did you do a new one from scratch?

 

Also, the siphon break on the return pipe is above water about an inch and water just streams out of it, hitting the inside of the overflow and making a racket. I know these are supposed to be important in the instance of a pump failure, but this is a heck of a lot of water, and the two flat nozzles don't make much flow at all because the siphon break steals it all.

[bigJPDC]

Hmm, I have the pieces ready to cut and assemble, but I'm wondering about disassembly if I need to change things around. If I'm using PVC cement, what are my options? Do I just cut the PVC off and then rejoin it with a coupler if I have to? I don't even see myself being able to get the sump out of the tank without cutting the drain and return lines off.

What a bummer my picture didn't come in.

Once again, if you use hose barbs and the vinyl tubing, you just loosen the hose clamps and wiggle the section you want to re-do off. Use unions around the pumps so you can remove and repair or replace, and ball valves to leave everything in place while you do so. There really isn't a lot going on if you look at it, but you should always be thinking about maintenance when designing your layout.

 

jp

 

I'm getting there. The standpipe that came with the tank produces the awful flushing noise. Charlie, did you modify your standpipe at all or did you do a new one from scratch?

That's a mismatch in the amount of water you are hitting it with and the amount it can drain. Try dialing back what your return pump is putting in the tank. Also, things will quiet down once you get a nice saltwater slime coat on your plumbing.

 

jp

[Guest beatle]

I picked up a union for my return line. Maybe I should have bought a ball valve as well...

 

The return is now quiet since I've replaced the final elbow with a new one, sans siphon break. I can still break siphon when my pump turns off by keeping a bit of one of the outlets just a bit above water - not enough to splash, but enough to let in enough air to break the siphon.

 

I've eliminated a lot of the flushing noise by replacing one of the top elbows with a a tee and a cap to my standpipe. I drilled a hole in the cap to "tune" the standpipe. The cap makes a bit of a gurgling noise, but it's better than it was.

 

I'm now noticing a cauldron of bubbles where the drain enters the sump. These are big, and they make a lot of noise. My drain line goes straight down and I convert to 1.5" piping which goes into an ell pointing parallel to the surface of the water. I've attached a 1.5 -> 3" tee at the end so there is one three inch end pointing up above the surface and one going down into the water. I experimented without this and the bubbles seemed bigger and more violent.

 

I've also noticed a lot of noise coming from my pump. It's not a rattling noise, but more of a constant "grrrrrr." I was expecting a lot less noise given the amount of noise (none) I've heard out of powerheads. Is the pump faulty or is there something else I might try with it?

[tygger]

The siphon breaks should be drilled about 1/2 - 1" UNDER water. They will work when the water above the overflow teeth drains.

[Rascal]

For the bubbles in the sump you've just got to keep experimenting -- as if you haven't already figured that out with all of this plumbing stuff. What I found works best for me is to have the drain pipe coming in at an angle, and then put another 45 degree elbow at the end of it. I position the elbow so that the opening is only about 1/2 submerged. The water ends up coming into the sump at maybe 10 deg below parallel. This way there is no splash or large bubbles, and really very little sound at all. I also have a T just above the elbows and I think this helps as well.

 

As far as the pump, I have used the Quiet One 3000 before and while I was not satisfied with it overall (heat & reliability issues), I did find it to be quiet. I guess it just depends on what you are used to. Quiet as a powerhead? No, but this one will give you over 550 gph at 4 feet of head, which is about 100 gph more than a Mag 7 but with much less noise.

 

A few tips to quiet it down:

 

1) If it's new this is probably not an issue but be aware these pumps are very-prone to calcium build-up so be sure to clean it regularly;

 

2) Either (a) put some foam or bubble wrap or something between the pump and sump floor/walls to stop the vibration of the pump from being transferred to the sump or (b) configure your plumbing so that the pump is suspended slightly off of the floor of the sump and not touching any of the walls; and

 

3) Use a short section of either (a) vinyl tubing with hosebarb fittings or (b) flex PVC after the outlet of your pump. If you have the pump hard plumbed with PVC all the way to your tank this is most likely the root of your noise issue. The PVC seems to almost magnify the sound of the vibration. Of the two ways of doing it, the vinyl tubing is definitely quieter but you will lose some flow due to the restrictions of the hosebarbs. Flex PVC has the same dimensions as regular PVC and uses all the same fittings, so there will be less head loss but a little more noise perhaps. All depends on what is easier, more important to you.

 

FWIW, I would use a true union after the pump anyway b/c for ease of removal/maintenance. HTH.

[Guest beatle]

I've experimented with the 3" tee at the end and different lengths of PVC going into the sump. I've found one that is better, and I think if I were to cap the 3" tee on the "air side" and drilled a hole for the air to escape that it would be quieter, but still nothing close to quiet. The water sloshing around in the PVC line itself makes a lot of noise. I'm considering the 45s now, but I really don't want to take up all the room in my drain area with PVC because I still need to fit a skimmer in it!

 

Does anyone have a truly silent system similar to mine, or at least one that's allegedly as quiet as you can get? If it doesn't get much quieter than this, I think I need to look at getting a different setup altogether that doesn't involve a sump.

[Guest beatle]

Well, I stopped by Wally's tonight. Thomas offered some free tubing and I hooked it to my drain. I still get a gurgling noise, no matter where it's positioned in relation to the water line or what angle it uses. There is just too much air in the pipe. If I had a smaller vent hole at the top of my standpipe, the pipe will flush. Would a ball valve on the drain be more useful than one on the return? Seems that if I could get the flow of both to be closer, there would be less air in the system, but I'm just hypothesizing now...

[tygger]

There is a way!

 

I using "Herbie's" method and it's been great! My tank is in my bed room and I had all the issues you described. Now, I can barely hear the water noise over the skimmer and return pumps.

 

It's a long read, but worthwhile:

 

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...mp;pagenumber=1

 

enjoy!

[Guest beatle]

There is a way!

 

I using "Herbie's" method and it's been great! My tank is in my bed room and I had all the issues you described. Now, I can barely hear the water noise over the skimmer and return pumps.

 

It's a long read, but worthwhile:

 

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...mp;pagenumber=1

 

enjoy!

 

I have to tell you, I'd scanned that thread and was hesitant, as it seemed to be dangerous and somewhat complicated by the fact that you have to run additional plumbing over the top. Well, I gotta hand it to Herbie, my system has not been quieter. I'm doing the adjustment now with a ball valve, and I don't yet have a mesh screen over the top (where do you get that anyway?) but this is seriously the only way to fly. I would seriously recommend a gate valve for the adjustment, as it can be finicky. Thanks for all the help.