Montipora digitata or Capercornia

[hbh]

HI all! I did recieve a frag from Dave (?) Magurda (THANKS!!!!). But I forget which is which. This one is hard, looks like deer antlers and is reddish "skinned". Since bringing it home it has begun to shed some of the outside "skin". which leads to the ? of why? Is this due to stress? Will it die or recover? There is no slime. Just it shedding the skin and seeing the bare white "skeleton" underneath- especially on 1 branch. other branches are fine.Should I dip it w/ meds like the bottle at the raffle ( Howard gave me one. Thanks again!) Does this spread to tohter frags? does it kill of this 1? How do I feed these frags? I have been putting in kent essential elements -1x- since sat. and 3x fed myisis shrimp since sat. and today added some phytoplanktons. All frags look good except that pronghorned 1. Can anyone help? Dave? Howard? Gastone? All you expert reefers? Thanks ahead of time!

Edited October 22, 2006 by hbh

[rocko918]

it's dying.

 

What kind of lights do you have? Tank size? filter? skimmer? How did you acclimate?

[dhoch]

Sounds like some kind of tissue necrosis, and yes that means it's dying...

 

The first thing is to check levels: Alk/Cal/pH/Nitrate/Nitrite/Phosphate/Ammonia (use good test kits).

 

Sometimes too low or two high levels will correspond with an event like this.

 

I've also seen this happen for no good reason other then stress (I lost a birdsnest colony in a tank with a bunch of sps and no other problems, just probably fragged it a bit tood much).

 

One of the things you can do is to frag the coral, and remove the dying part...

 

Dave

[mogurnda]

SOunds like one of the digitata frags. It's possible that the stress of packing, shipping, and the new tank was just too much for it. I agree with Dave H, just separate the healthy looking part from the dying area and it should be fine.

 

If it doesn't make it, you're welcome to a healthy, fresh replacement. That goes for anyone else who gets frags from me.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Hmmm, I see that you are a new member. Welcome to WAMAS! How old is the tank and what acclimation procedure did you use when you added the monti to your tank? RTN (rapid tissue necrosis) can occur for many reasons, stress being one of them. Give us some more info about your tank specs...age, water params, acclimation method.

[hbh]

Thanks for the ?'s! I don't have the levels in front of me but will post tomorrow. It is in my 10 gal QT tank w/ live rock, no fish- awaiting to be put into my 55 this weekend after I know there is no more Marine ich. The salinity in the main is 0.19 while QT is 0.21. the temp is 82 in both . I currently have 2 small (!)but strong desk halogens shining on them. (I know you all are currently, problably, groaning! It's all that I had available to me. I am getting new lights for the main tank shortly. Hopefully a 36" MH w/ 1 175 w HQI and 2 65 W CFs and 3x bluemoom Leds... Is that enough light? ) I have no skimmer but H2o quality was not a previous issue. H2o was added - about 1 gal- to ensure a full tank. I have put in Kent Marine Phytoplex and Essential Elements since Sat. I have the Seachem Reef Dip. Would that help? Most of the outside skin is gone. ( so sorry, Dave!) I had a small piece break off in transit and that 1 is doing fine. How do I frag it? In terms of acclimating, it was floated for an hour to adjust the 2 temps. and then quickly super glued to a small rock. Let's see what else.... The other frags seem to be just fine w/ no slime from the start. The water flow is good through out the tank w/ some frags under the flow, others towards the lesser flowing areas. The filter uses a foam sponge,biomax cylinders and carbon @ a rate of 100gph. I could forward photos if anyone is willing to let me . I've taken them w/ my cell phone ( okay, I know, get a real camera, but they came out REALLY nice! and show details) and I can forward them. Don't know how to upload them here. Any other suggestions or ?'s ? Any tips or helps for how to acclimate better next time? Sorry for the long post. Thanks again for welcoming me and helping! You all make a newbie welcome.

Edited October 19, 2006 by hbh

[phisigs79]

I am sorry but this is why the next frag workshop should be run differently. I only got 2 frags while other people had 20 or so without proper conditions to care for them. This is one thing that i wasnt very happy with about the meeting.

[hbh]

I am sorry for you. I was asked if I wanted these. I asked ?'s to those who offered if there were others who wanted them. I took only the easier ones that were directly offered to me and the ones that were NOT WANTED AT THE END OF THE MEETING. Perhaps next time you could do something differently like preaarange trading. There were many posts beforehand on who was trading and selling. In the meantime I am, was, and still learning. You have to start somewhere. I was already reading and had decided what direction to go. But that doesn't mean I know it all. I will always have ?s to ask and am willing to risk asking the seemingly dumb ones to confirm knowledge accuracy. Again, I am sorry you missed out. You knew it was a frag meeting. What more can I say except come next time and ENJOY it?

[phisigs79]

I am not talking about the meeting but more towards the frag workshop when frags where given out at the end. I did get some nice frags which i paid for. I 'm glad you asked the right questions but you also should of realized you didnt have the right equipment to house these SPS frags and now they are dead. I dont think that the person that gave them to you is at fault. Our club is to promote and care for wildlife and to learn about this hobby. By taking SPS and putting them under PC's or a bright light and letting them die is not responsible. I am not saying that you dont care that it died because you obviously do because you posted trying to find a way to keep it alive but i am sure there many people that really could care less. It just makes me upset when people dont care or are so greedy and dont think about the outcomes. At the meeting all i saw where people try to get all that they could fit in their hands when some of them prob didnt have the right setup, water quality or light to house there corals. Its a shame!

Edited October 19, 2006 by phisigs79

[mogurnda]

I think the idea of some sort of discussion regarding the acclimation and care of the corals being fragged is a good one. It would actually be quite useful to have someone talking about the care and biology of the different corals as they are being fragged.

 

In this case, despite being "SPS," M. digitata is a very hardy coral, and can live under just about any light besides NO fluorescents. All of my digitata colonies have lived and grown under both PCs and halides at one time or another. The main issue is making sure the Ca and alkalinity are maintained.

 

Let's step back a moment. For this incident, I deserve much of the blame, because I was literally trying to get rid of frags rather than take them home. Some of them had been free-living colonies on the floor of my tank for months. My feeling was that it was better to give them a chance to live in another tank, rather than go home and risk being buried. I am not happy that the frag died, but I can't say that I am particularly upset by it. M digitata is very brittle, and I end up with a ton of accidental frags, and many of them die from getting buried or stung anyway. If hbh had even a small chance of keeping them alive, then that's not a bad risk in my opinion.

[squiddly]

I think something helpful to us newbies might be something like the following. Yes, it would take someone a lot of time, but it might be very useful before fragging meetings or parties, etc.

 

If we know what kinds of animals will be fragged, maybe listing them with a photo, common name, scientific name, lighting requirements, water requirements, feeding requirements, etc. would then make it easier for people to know which frags are "safe" for them to take and try, and which are beyond their or their equipment's capabilities.

 

I came home with zero frags, partially because I couldn't get near enough (can't stand up for a long time given my bad knee) and partially because I didn't know which frags I wouldn't kill. I'm perhaps overly sensitive about that, but I feel really bad whenever I lose anything. I'd be a lot more willing to try if I knew what I was looking at re: difficulty of care.

[Rascal]

No offense to anyone, but I'm not sure that it would be possible for someone without much experience to really learn enough to care from these animals by just being given general "care sheet" type of information about their requirements. I am by no means an expert, but only after keeping a reef tank for almost three years, reading at least 10 carefully chosen books, and spending countless, and I mean countless, hours reading everything I could on wetwebmedia, reefcentral, reefs.org, and this site (I was a silent observer long before I joined) did I even attempt to keep some of the more demanding corals like SPS. I won't even go into all the equipment I have expirimeted with in that time. I am sure there are exceptions in this club, but for most of us this is not something that can be mastered overnight. It is one thing to know the requirements of these animals, still another to know what you actually have to do to meet those requirements, and yet another to be successful at doing so consistently over an extended period of time. If this was easy, we wouldn't have anything to talk about, right?

 

Hbh: Again, please don't take offense to any of this. There is not a person in this club who has not made mistakes at the cost of the livestock they put in their tanks. It is part of learning process. The fact that you found this distressing shows that you care and that this frag meant more to you than just a little decoration to put in your tank. Please do some more research and take the time to get your water parameters more in line with what these animals need before trying again. If you haven't already looked here, you might find that this site has a lot of good information to get you started: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm.

Also all of the pinned forums in the New to the Hobby section on this site.

Edited October 19, 2006 by Rascal

[hbh]

HI all. I am glad that all are trying to make good suggestions and work it out.

I, too, had been reading many hours and read many posts prior to joining here. My Tank parameters have been fine w/ PH 8.0 as usual, ammonia & nitrites @ 0, Temp was a little low but since has been corrected to 82-84, the sgh was @ 1.21 but has been upped to 1.24 w/ a partial water change w/ RO H2O from Cbashaw (THANKS CHRIS!). The Monti. is still alive and seems to have stabilized. It will be refragged Sun. Everything else is fine and doing well. Just for reference, I only have about 7-8 frags of 2 zoas, 2 kenya trees, a soft one of some kind, the monti and a mushroom that no one wanted. Before taking any of the frags I asked about their degree/ level of care and refused any that were to hard for a beginner. I wanted to try the moniti. Dave and I both discussed/agreed that I could try. He knew I was going to do my best and he knew I was a newbie. We discussed parameters. He agreed to help if I needed it. I am still happy about receiving the frags and would still take the ones I have all over again given the opportunity. They have enhanced my enjoyment of the tank, given the excuse to visit my 2 favorite LFS 4x this week, and have given a much needed reason to just sit, relax and watch. My children have been fascinated with them and are also learning some coral care/facts. My 10 y/o son went w/ me today to the LFS. He amazed me by IDing some corals and fish. He made suggestions concerning our tank, asked some good ?s, and expressed his wish for a Xenia frag.

Rascal, thanks for the site recommendation. If you have any books you wouldn't mind loaning out, I'd be glad to read them!

Dave, Thank you for encouraging me to try. I would like another frag in the near future. This one, I think, just had a very bad, stressful day, but I may never know until I get home to heaven and can ask God why. . We both knew the risks. The forum was the means to ask the ?s. Thanks for helping me reach a goal.

Could WAMAS have a 2 track frag mtg.? 1 for beginners with easier corals fragged specifically for them while another 1 runs for more advanced? The cafeteria was big enough to do that. The seminar could have an ID part, an acclimation part, and a care aspect. Just a thought. As to the # of frags taken by whom, I'll let you all work that one out! That is a great white shark ? to me and my preference is not to be eaten. Again, Thanks for all your help.

Edited October 22, 2006 by hbh

[Rascal]

hhb:

 

Sorry. From your initial post I feared you were more of a beginner than you are. SG 0.21, desk halogens, no skimmer, adding H20 to ensure a full tank (instead of topping off to maintain stable salinity). All of that had me a little worried, but it appears that you are on the right track. Some questions and suggestions:

 

What are your levels for alkalinity (and/or carbonate hardness), calcium, nitrates, and phosphate?

IMO, the only thing you need to supplement in a reef aquarium is alk & calc. You will get trace elements just by doing water changes. Others will have different opinions, but I think all will agree that you shouldn't add anything that you aren't testing for.

What are you using (or thinking about using) to maintain calcium and alkalinity?

What is your bioload (or stocking plan) with regard to fish, clean-up crew, etc. . . ?

 

When are you getting a skimmer? Seriously, there are some out there who have beatiful tanks which are skimmerless, but this is really an advanced technique. You will find plenty of advice and strong opinions on skimmer choices. I'd be happy to add my voice to the mix if you want.

 

That light set-up should be great. How about flow?

 

You are more than welcome to borrow some of my books. I am in Annandale and work in Fairfax, but we might be able to work something out.

 

Glad to hear your kids are taking an interest. That really is one of the more rewarding aspects of the hobby for me. Yesterday morning as we were watching Pinochio, my 10-year old was ID'ing all the fish to my 18-month old.

[squiddly]

I really like the idea of beginners and more advanced groups. It definitely would make it easier on beginners if we knew we'd have a fighting chance with some of the easier species.

[hbh]

Rascal,

Thanks for your encouragement on starting out as head knowledge is one thing but experience is a whole differrent kind of learning! As to the generous offer of book loans, could you Pm me so we can talk? Thanks!

HI all. My levels have all been good for months w/ no spikes or drops. I really like my 55 gal. acrylic system even though most have not seen this type. It was bought from an Asian couple who were moving. They knew some things but am truly amazed that they didn't know other info. such as what to feed thier hippo tang ( which is recovering nicely from HLLE or their clownfish or that you don't scrub LR down to whiteness yet they bought really a nice tank system. Go figure.) The only item I currently add every other week is DKH buffer, alternate weeks of cleaning the filter pads, check nitrate, ammonia, PH levels weekly. SGH is usually 1-3 x week just because I like to do it. My flow seems to be great as there are 2 pumps flowing in a circular manner. I can see particles quickly going from 1 end to the other. I'm pretty sure 1 is rated as 200GPH. My bioload is reasonable in terms of fish. We have room for more but am waiting to add. We've thought about 1 more PJ cardinal ( have 2) or another clown or 1-2 purple or red firefish. We have a good sized hippo tang, 6 line wrasse, 2 PJs, 3 blue-green chromis,& 1 strawberry chromis. Right now the debate is for a starfish- blue linckia- or some more snails- or a shrimp of some kind. Does anyone want to throw in their $.02 worth?

As to the corals they get feed 1x week w/ Kent phytoplankton and 1 cube of thawed cyclops with an occasional taste of myisis shrimp and another frozen food that I'm too tired to remember. In terms of a skimmer, my levels have been consistenly good so I've not been in a hurry to get one. My priority would be lights, then a fuge or skimmer. But if something came my way, I wouldn't refuse it unless it was a bad sytem.

I, too, as a beginner would prefer a dual frag mtg. Then perhaps some of the issues could on the kinds and # of frags could be somewhat resolved. This could serve newer members too as a means of meeting others. That's all for now.

Edited October 24, 2006 by hbh

[sturnmeyer]

Rascal,

Thanks for your encouragement on starting out as head knowledge is one thing but experience is a whole differrent kind of learning! As to the generous offer of book loans, could you Pm me so we can talk? Thanks!

HI all. My levels have all been good for months w/ no spikes or drops. I really like my 55 gal. acrylic system even though most have not seen this type. It was bought from an Asian couple who were moving. They knew some things but am truly amazed that they didn't know other info. such as what to feed thier hippo tang ( which is recovering nicely from HLLE or their clownfish or that you don't scrub LR down to whiteness yet they bought really a nice tank system. Go figure.) The only item I currently add every other week is DKH buffer, alternate weeks of cleaning the filter pads, check nitrate, ammonia, PH levels weekly. SGH is usually 1-3 x week just because I like to do it. My flow seems to be great as there are 2 pumps flowing in a circular manner. I can see particles quickly going from 1 end to the other. I'm pretty sure 1 is rated as 200GPH. My bioload is reasonable in terms of fish. We have room for more but am waiting to add. We've thought about 1 more PJ cardinal ( have 2) or another clown or 1-2 purple or red firefish. We have a good sized hippo tang, 6 line wrasse, 2 PJs, 3 blue-green chromis,& 1 strawberry chromis. Right now the debate is for a starfish- blue linckia- or some more snails- or a shrimp of some kind. Does anyone want to throw in their $.02 worth?

As to the corals they get feed 1x week w/ Kent phytoplankton and 1 cube of thawed cyclops with an occasional taste of myisis shrimp and another frozen food that I'm too tired to remember. In terms of a skimmer, my levels have been consistenly good so I've not been in a hurry to get one. My priority would be lights, then a fuge or skimmer. But if something came my way, I wouldn't refuse it unless it was a bad sytem.

I, too, as a beginner would prefer a dual frag mtg. Then perhaps some of the issues could on the kinds and # of frags could be somewhat resolved. This could serve newer members too as a means of meeting others. That's all for now.

 

Welcome!!!!!!!!! We've all been where you are at least once in this hobby. One of the great things about it is that no matter how much experience you have, there is always something new to learn.

 

I'd say stay away from the blue Linkia for the time being. They are very sensitive to water parameters and I would definitely not recommend them as something for a beginner. I have been in the marine world for about 10 years now and tried one once. It lasted a while but I found it just took that long to wither away. It has been 5 years since then and I still haven't convinced myself to try it again.

 

On the note of the protein skimmer, let me just say "I'd get one". I went for years without a water parameter problem so I too didn't think I needed a skimmer. When I started with coral everything seemed to go okay but I decided to put one on my 30g tank just to see if it did make a difference. Boy did it. The junk that gets taken out by a skimmer is amazing, especially if you have a fish bioload. The corals reacted in a way I was not expecting. Much more growth and polyp extension, which is what you are looking for. Now I have 3 tanks and all 3 have skimmers.

 

Just some thoughts.....

[hbh]

Thanks for the info. I'm working on upgrading my main tank lighting and getting equipment like a refugium, and skimmer. I'm trying to buy good used equipment from the FS boards. So far so good on all the remaining frags!