chucelli
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Posts posted by chucelli
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After the first prototype was built and testing completed, I set out to build a few more.
I realized that the first build was over-engineered in the cooling department and only half of the original heatsink was needed, so I designed the Gen2 with that in mind. The advantage is that the pendent is half the size of the original while putting out identical output.
Here are some pics of the second build... I did not have a free hand, so it was difficult for me to document as well as I wanted.. but it does show how much work is involved with prepping the heatsink (my least favorite part).
Cutting main stock to size:
completed cut:
jagged edges to be finished:
a template was created to facilitate the building of multiple units:
drilling the 72 holes needed to mount LEDs for each unit.
Mount holes complete:
polishing surface for better LED/heatsink mating:
fan mounts are cut and refinished:
mounting begins:
mounting complete and soldering begins:
finished and hung on rails over display:
The orginal prototype on the left and the Gen2 on the right:
I mounted all pendents on wheels so they can be moved if needed:
another FTS... All exposures were lowered to prevent washout, hence the seemingly dark surroundings:
These have been over the display for almost two weeks now.
I have read from most on RC using Cree emitters that it seems to put out more light than expected. I think my PAR readings reinforce that. As such, I am slowly acclimating the display to these lights with very short cycles. All three pendents overlap no more than ≈3 hours a day, and they are staggered so that there is light on the display for 11.5 hours a day.
So far, all corals seem to be responding favorably with new tips, and in the case of the plating montis, more folds are developing, and surface is becoming more textured.
As far as costs are concerned, I find it a moot point when you consider the costs of MH bulb replacement. In my case, I replace bulbs every six months as I find that output decreases dramatically by then and spectrum changes. I notice because my corals almost stop growing. At 3x250, that's at least $210 per year. Nevermind the shock the corals have to go through each time I change bulbs.
Temperature:
My display used to increase anywhere for 2-4˚F during the day when the halides are on, causing unavoidable temp fluctuations. Now, there is no fluctuation. AT ALL.
Frankly, I don't understand the apprehension with LED technology. It is here and ready now. Costs are not higher than a comparable MH system when considered over 3 years (fixture/ballast and bulb replacement costs) less if you are using HQI pendents, as they tend to be more expensive.
Environmental impacts:
In addition to using only a fraction of the energy of any other reef lighting available to us, these emitters have a projected lifetime of 11 years running around 12 hours a day before light output decreases to 70% of original output.
They contain no toxic materials, unlike florescents and MH, which contain mercury and other toxic materials.
I encourage anyone with the means to try this. You will be pleasantly surprised. Also, I want to add that these pictures really don't capture the quality of light these LEDs output. It has to be seen in person!
-Robert
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yes, that is a DB9 connection
It allows up to four channels (blues, whites, fan, aux). -
I'm not sure to which LEDs you are referring, but these have no internal reflectors. The chip is a two dimensional square less than 2mm in diameter. Light output from this tiny squarish plane is 180˚. If the chip was mounted on a reflective surface, it would not benefit from a reflector sitting behind the chip. Optics designed for this application are mounted within ≈120˚ field and contain a built-in reflector and lens. The amount of light lost with the use of optics are insignificant relative to the amount that would otherwise end up being on the walls of the room when run without optics. In any case, optics are not necessary as many early users have discovered that their systems needed to be turned down or mounted higher due to the intensity of these LEDs. However, optics definately gives you cleaner and stronger output.
-R
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sorry, I meant Glasscages, not Glassbox.
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LEDs are great. But something that I've noticed more of recently is people putting lenses on top of them. I find it curious as most LEDs come with reflectors built into them to focus their light in one direction. I've seen anywhere from 10-160 deg. So one should be able to achieve the desired light dispersion angles with out putting a lense on the LED. Aside from protecting the LED from the salt air environment do the lenses have any real purpose?
btw. A dimmer switch for a 12V circuit should be all that's necessary to add a dimmer to the circuit. Boat/US might have something useful...
LEDs do not have reflectors built into them.
Most have some sort of lens to protect the actual chip and roughly focus the light output to around 120˚. Optics concentrate the light by incorporating reflectors behind lenses.
This data sheet shows the difference 60˚ optics makes on light output of these LEDs:
www.cree.com/Products/pdf/XLampXR-ESecondaryOptics.pdf
Also if you see my PAR readings table, you will see that optics serve a very real purpose.
As for dimming LEDs, it is not as simple as attaching a 12v circut dimmer switch.
These power supplies operate anywhere from 24v to 48v DC for starters...
Also, LEDs require constant current in order to run properly. I suggest reading the very comprehensive RC thread for more information.
-R
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Anyone here have any experience with any rimless tank vendors?
(Not Glassbox). I've heard too many horror stories about their tanks and service. I know there are good experiences out there as well, but in general, the accounts are too varied for me to take that kind of risk.
It seems that in Europe and Asia (and pretty much the whole rest of the world), rimless tanks are available as part of the standard fare...
Here, it seems that it's a pretty big deal if you can get your hands on one.
The closest that I know of to the Metro DC area is Miracles in Ontario Canada, but I don't know what sorts of shipping/import/duty costs may be involved.
Any input from rimless owners appreciated.
-Robert
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they look good to me....
I like how they have various kit packages for all sorts of DIYs. Shipping should be faster as well since they are based in the US.
-R
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I don't want to clog this thread up with patent talk.
Their patent claim is based on "their idea" of using a light source they did not invent for the specific purpose of growing marine life. The only thing they did was make an enclosure and controller for LEDS and did not "invent" anything new.
If anyone wants to read more about this, the following links are for your reading pleasure.
Orbitec vs. PFO lawsuit:
http://www.reefbuilders.com/wp-content/upl.../p-o08-220p.pdf
Orbitec's patent:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=mwWAAAAAE...ne+aquarium+LED
Topics relating to Orbitec can be discussed in a separate thread if so desired
In other news...
Array12 coming soon!
(designed for sunbathing your cat or dog, but works well on your reef aquarium also)
Just noticed you had already posted the links Boret
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I think it's a hit or miss with fish. None of my three tangs eat hair algae.
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is it just the physical irritant of the bristles or is there some type of toxin in the bristles?
Every time I get poked, my skin turns red and burns. I tried soaking in full strength vinegar a couple times to no avail.
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next time, you could just use some RO water. Works the same.
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Boret,
There are no patent laws being broken, as the patent only applies to LEDs being commercialized very specific applications.
There are no laws against providing a service or building your own.
-R
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If anyone is questioning whether this array will grow SPS, or have any doubts about SPS color, here's a vid of "soundwave's" tank one year later under these LEDs. He's not even using optics.
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Thanks AV8.
Boret, those prices for optics seem good to me. Make sure they are Cree optics, as I would think they work best with their LEDs. From what I understand, the blues were the questionable ones from dealextreme. Make sure what you are getting are the "Royal Blue" 450nm peak LEDs. These LEDs have been used successfully in the horticulture industry and provides the correct spectrum for photosynthesis.
-R
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Good link. This seems a great deal for the LEDs:
If you read the RC thread fully, there is a discussion on dealextreme. Bin numbers are important when purchasing LEDs. That is the only way to ensure the correct spectrum and brightness.
-R
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found another link if anyone wants to attempt a DYI
http://www.wheresmydrink.com/2009/05/led-s...C%20Jacks/Plugs
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Bob,
the in-water readings are highlighted in aqua, and yes, they were taken with 40˚ optics for practical purposes. It illustrates minimal if any loss of PAR when penetrating up to 2 feet of water. Readings similar to out-of-water measurements can be expected using any of the available optics.
davelin,
you are right about spotlighting being used in Japanese reef tanks for a while now. The highly directional nature of this type of spotlighting is different than conventional lighting (MH, T5), which means corals which have been grown under conventional lighting will need to adapt. Smaller frags or colonies which have not taken on any specialized shape will grow to utilize more direct lighting. As with any lighting, many variables come to play when talking about shading, since BB tanks will naturally have more shade due to the lack of a reflective sand bottom. Multiple units can be mounted at different angles to ensure proper coverage. This current unit has this feature built into the design, as the three mounting points can be adjusted to provide light output at different angles.
Building units which output light at a predetermined angle (ie. shaped aluminum) is not practical for anything but the most customized applications, since many times users will upgrade tanks, add additional lighting, make various other changes, etc..
I think trying to make LED lighting work like conventional MH or T5 lighting is totally missing the point. The highly directional nature of LED lighting opens up a whole new array of lighting techniques/methodologies.... Acquascaping especially can benefit from the vast flexibility. Perhaps we can finally begin to move away from the traditional fruit stand arrangements, and put light only where we need it.
-Robert
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This is probably one of the most comprehensive threads about LED lighting. It also includes a parts list
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1587273
Although his build did not include optics, it can be found at the same vendor as the LEDs.
-R
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thanks Davelin.
I will create a post in the FS section.
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FWIW, mounting them >4 feet above the tank bottom creates pretty good spread while getting 187
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Hey David, you are right that spreading these out would create more coverage. However, I wanted great versatility and create the most powerful spot that I could and avoid color separation. I figured there were enough ways to control intensity if needed (ie. hanging them higher up, using wider angle optics both increase cover and decrease intensity proportionally. Also, for those interested in mounting them close in a closed hood/canopy, optics can be removed for a more traditional lighting effect (much greater coverage).
I am getting many messages as well as posts regarding cost.
*** removed pricing ***
Just for reference, here are some Japanese spots using 7 1.5w LEDs.
http://www.aquatouch.com/products.html
My above build uses 24 3w LEDs.
Admins, please remove this post if it is not allowed.
Thanks,
-Robert
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heatsinkusa. If you know of a cheaper place, please do tell
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thanks Justin,
I am trying to keep costs low, so no manual dimming on this unit (dimmable power supplies can be used in place of the non dimmable. The actual pendent unit remains unchanged. However, costs of the dimmable PS are about 2X the cost of non-dimmable. Also, IMO, manual dimming of either color to tweak overall color is inefficient, since you are essentially turning down one or the other to get the desired color. It would be more efficient to adjust color temp through the use of different numbers of LEDs (more blue or more white). The two colors are powered separately however. I did not take pics of actinics only, since I couldn't get my camera to pickup the true essence of this blue. Color temp can also be adjusted through a combination of different optics. For example, a mix of 40˚ optics for white and 60˚ for blue will yield a whiter color temp on center. The reverse holds true if the end user wants a more blue color temp.
Intensity can be adjusted by array mounting height also. I will be mounting these arrays >4 feet above my display. Even at that height, there is less light bleeding into the room than the current MH...
Noobalicious,
The life expectancy of these is something like 11 years when run continuously at recommended specs. More data can be found here:
Active cooling is not necessary with the size heatsink I chose, but I decided to run one anyways to increase life expectancy further.
Thanks Ranado. PAR numbers finally!
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Finally completed testing on my LED pendent.
The plan is to put this pendent on display at one or more LFS. I will build these to order. Anyone interested, please PM me. If you are interested in attempting a build yourself, there is a very comprehensive thread on RC. Also feel free to comment on my testing methods, (improvements, etc.. ) within reason of course, since I have a two year old and work full time, not every test scenario can be covered
Majority of readings were conducted out of water for baseline, since it provided for a more controllable test environment. A few readings were then taken in my display for practical purposes.
First, some views:
Top:
bottom: notice the absence of exposed wires.
side: low profile
close up of optics:
some pictures taken during PAR measurments:
Some in tank measurements: (flash was used to expose the LCD display on the Quantum Meter)
FTS with array >4 feet from tank bottom
For reference, here is a FTS with 3X250w 14K MH (notice how much light is being thrown onto the wall behind the display.
And finally, the PAR measurements:
In tank measurements are not consistent I believe due to the difficulty in sensor placement. However, it does show that little if any light is lost through water of this depth (One reading read more than when measured outside water).
-Robert
LED pendent Gen2
in General Discussion
Justin,
you are close by, let me know if you want to stop by to check out these units in action!
I would love to check out your coral farm sometime...
-Robert