chucelli
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Posts posted by chucelli
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Those numbers are very consistent with Inline designs due to the parallel arrangement and spacing of the emitters. This design favors even coverage over intensity. Additional arrays could be added to create overlaps, which would raise PAR numbers. However, I don't think it necessary judging from the numbers you are getting when mount height is factored in. If you were to lower the fixture to match previous T5 mount height, the PAR numbers are sure to exceed current numbers as well as the previous T5 setup.
Having said that, I don't think you should be changing anything if your corals are growing and displaying pleasing colors. If you want to up the intensity, you could lower the unit an inch at a time, keeping in mind that intensity changes with height more so than with other forms of lighting (T5, MH).
-Robert
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Here's my submission:
Robert
My 75 display
Nikon D40x
-Unsharpmask
-reduced blue
Teal stag on top of Yongei
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Over the years, I have become increasingly fond of Tropical Lagoon. Steve is eccentric, but knows his stuff and is straight with you.
Couldn't agree more.
There's a reason why he's been there for 30 years.
-Robert
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The problem is, I and probably others, are not convinced that your skimmerless systems are capable of sustaining SPS corals for the long haul. There are not that many SPS corals (let alone mature colonies) in your tank... unless there is another tank you have not posted pictures of...
-R
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I would seriously re-think, or at least bring to the end-user's attention, that he/she is paying $24 per led when using those PAR38 LEDs vs 23.60 per LED for an Aqua Illumination unit. The price difference may seem negligible, but consider the additional engineering (better cooling, modular design, published specs, etc...) in the AI unit and the difference is not so small.
-Robert
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Nate is going to go buck wild once he get's his new 300g display situated.
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old reefer,
a dozen of the whites with tight optics will be the way to go. However, the shimmer would definitely be slightly washed out. Hard to say since I've never seen that application in person...
The shimmer could be further enhanced by limiting the amount of T5 whites so there is more contrast between the two light sources.
-R
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Jim,
jut FYI, for 300 3w Cree emitters, you are 3 Meanwells short if we are talking about the 48v Meanwells.
Anything more than 12 emitters per 48v Meanwell is pushing it slightly.
To your question,
this inline design does not need active cooling due to the relatively low density of LEDs in the given area.
-R
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audible,
tanks pictured in this thread are not my tanks. I only designed and built lighting units for them. You can go here to post comments relating to Renato's tank:
-R
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EDIT:
Channel length for Renato's 70g cube is 2' not 3'.
I have too many numbers running around in my head.
-R
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Do not pull at it no matter what you do. You risk tearing the bysal foot. If you can't reach the filaments with scissors or razor, it's best to chip off the piece of rock it's attached to.
-R
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Thanks guys.
Ideal (and conservative) emitter spacing I have come up with through testing is 3 emitters per foot of this type of channel, when LEDs are run at 700mA. This could be pushed, but I would not be comfortable putting them next to hot halides with densities exceeding 3 per foot.
Jim, the cube is 70 gallons in volume I believe. Channel length for this particular build is 3'. Here is a link to his dedicated tank thread:
http://www.wamas.org/forums/topic/33546-el-camarons-70-gallon-cube-upgrade/page__st__50
David, endcaps are an option. However, maximum heat dissipation is better achieved leaving ends "open".
I want to add that, although there is more room in skimping on cooling, I opted for a more conservative approach, due to the fact that I want to ensure my units will maintain lumen output for the spec'd 11 years (when run 12 hours per day), since any decrease in output won't be detected by the user until a 50% output decrease has happened. Without a robust cooling design, it is hard to calculate proper replacement intervals.
-R
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Forgot to add,
for comparison reference,
The unit at TFW is mounted next to a 400w SE metal halide lamp.
The one at TL is mounted next to a 250w HQI metal halide lamp.
-R
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Hey Renato,
adding some of my pics.... using same WB as my own tank shots. Your water is definitely clearer, since there is a lot more blue showing in your tank pics compared to mine...
No post processing except unsharpmask.
Closer shots.
Post processing: Reduced blue levels to 0%. Unsharpmask.
The two pictures below are closest to in-person. What do you think Renato?
-Robert
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Finally got a chance to document a recent inline style custom build.
This has been in the works for a while, developed in tandem with the pendent style, but didn't get a chance to do any proper documentation until now.
Emitters used: Cree XR-E Q5 bin CW and 450nm RB.
Emitter number: 12 per array, total of 3 arrays = 36 LEDs for this build.
Drive current: 700mA
LED color ratio: 1:1 blue/white
Optics used 80˚ center unit, 60˚ side units.
Inline Array12.
testing.
Delivery!
Originally designed as three separately adjustable units, it was decided since there were corals growing on the glass, that one single unit would work better. So the trio were fused together.
FTS. Wires still need to be organized and hidden.
Some closer shots to show color.
Anyone who is interested in seeing these inline systems in person, talk to Nate or Renato.
The original pendent style units can be seen at Tropical Lagoon in Silver Spring as well as Tropical Fishworld in Gaithersburg.
-Robert
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Av8BlueWater,
sorry for the late reply. I just noticed this thread today after Jaesun posted...
My RC thread is located here.
It contains links to some of the most informative info regarding LED lighting. You can also check out my article at ReefAddicts here.
I think it was posted earlier in this thread, but I am using Cree XR-E emitters from the Q4 bin. I recently switched to using Q5 bin emitters for new builds because suppliers are no longer carrying Q4s.
-R
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You are absolutely correct about the older Solaris models, but not the I-5. I-5 was the last one they made and was actually made in America. You will have a hard time finding even one reported failure of a true I-5(some people seemed to be confused about what they have). I do have a PAR meter and my readings are comparable to people running high power MH setups. Am I maybe missing something here? Is there some fault in the Solaris or even older LED technology that causes good PAR readings but for the underside of SPS to bleach out? The fact is that every picture I have ever seen of an LED setup is much darker in the caves and shadows than the pics I see of MH or t5 setups and that has been my personal experience as well.
I don't think I ever argued against your point regarding bleaching undersides, or darker caves and shadows. When I was running metal halide, some of the larger colony undersides started receding also when I removed my sandbed (due to removal of the reflective bottom surface).
You are correct in that LED output tends to be more directional, which is why system specific variables need to be taken into account when drawing designs for specific setups. The same recession will be experienced in any system if you simply tilt some of your larger colonies at different angles different than what they have grown accustomed to. This effect is not LED specific, but may be more exaggerated. This is another example of fault with application and not technology. This particular problem can easily be resolved with smaller multiple fixtures providing light from more than one angle. Smaller colonies and frags will never experience the problems you mentioned since they will naturally grow to maximize surface area exposure under directional LED lighting.
Finally, I also want to add that my apprehension with commercial units is not so much with where it is manufactured, but rather the components used, and the fact that detailed specs are not usually offered to the end consumer. In addition, the lack of customizable options results in an ineffective "one size fits all" model.
-R
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LED technology for use in captive reef systems is still a relatively new concept, as such, applications of this technology still needs to mature. Note, I am not saying the actual technology needs to mature. Because LEDs output light in a very different fashion when compared with traditional metal halide or T5 lighting, design and applications need to be customized to take care of differences and utilize advantages. The problem I see currently with LEDs is the countless variables involved when attempting to apply this technology. Many simply do not understand, or still are thinking in traditional terms, like wattage, reflectors, color temp, etc...
In terms of what's best when talking component specifications, a DIY fixture (assuming you have the know-how, ability, and tools) can always be more advanced than a commercial unit, simply because the resources available to us hobbyists have grown tremendously, and you have total control over the quality and relevance of each and every component. I don't know about the most current commercial units, but I have read on various forums and heard from a few LFS owners that the Solaris units had many issues, including but not limited to different parts used over several units, LEDs actually burning out, etc..
Of the many DIY'ers, There has not been one single report of an LED failure, which is more consistent with the technology. I believe it has to do with the quality components people tend to spec out for themselves when building their own unit. Commercial companies have less reason to do so and more reason to cut corners to save production costs.
Several important things to watch for (which are not always published by the manufacture) when shopping for any LED system, are:
1. LED type and Bin.
There are mainly two trusted LED manufactures, when it comes to reef lighting, as defined by majority of LED builds. Philips and Cree. Cree currently seems the winner, as they currently have claim to the most efficient production LED on the market (lumens per watt). They have also been extremely reliable. Within any brand LED, the emitters are sent through QA and separated into bins. These bins determine the overall quality of the LED within that company's line of LEDs. Differences between the lowest performing bin and the highest can vary by more than 50%. As such, price differences between the different bins also vary greatly. This does not mean very much when it comes to commercial lighting or cutting edge flashlights, but it will matter when we are talking about lighting for a reef tank.
2. Drive current.
The amount of light a particular LED can output is directly related to how much current is running though it. The higher the max spec'd current, the more current that particular LED can handle. However, with higher currents come higher temps. Keep in mind, this is not the kind of heat that would add anything to the ambient air, but it is this relatively small amount of heat that can shorten lumen maintenance (the amount of time the LED keeps specified light output). It takes more than a 50% decrease in light output, before the human eye will register a change, so keeping the LEDs cool is key to lumen maintenance.
3. Optics in design.
choice of optics can mean the difference between 50w metal halide or a 400w metal halide, all in one LED fixture. It is perhaps one of the most important and overlooked aspects of LED lighting. LEDs do not use reflectors, as it will do little good, since the light emitter wafer in these LEDs is a tiny flat square 1-2mm in diameter. There is absolutely no light beyond the 180˚ half circle, which is why optics are used to gather that light into something less than 180˚. The tighter the angle, the more intense the light. Optic angles play a direct role in intensity vs coverage.
4. PAR output at desired color temps.
Many of the complaints regarding earlier commercial systems were related to inconsistent PAR output at a given color. This is due to the fact that these manufactures allowed end users to change overall light color through the use of dimming. The problem with this approach is that once the user has settled on desired color, the total output can be very different then the unit's factory specs. Dimming is not an efficient approach to color manipulation, since it involves running certain banks of LEDs at less than ideal efficiency rates. Modification of LED ratios is a better approach to achieve color temp (example 1:1 blue/white vs 2:3 blue/white).
I think LED technology for captive reef use is here and ready, it is the application of this technology which still needs to be explored and refined.
-Robert
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I had an imperator angel that ate sponges. Though it eventially started eating other things as well...
-R
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IME, STN and RTN are some of the most difficult things to find causation for...
Sometimes, there just may be nothing you can do. I wouldn't be able to begin to suggest what may be causing your STN, but the best advice I would have is not to take any drastic measures, as the already weakened corals may just "kick the bucket".
Are these frags or colonies fairly new?
-R
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You can lower PH by adding seltzer or soda water, or vinegar in extreme cases.
I don't think your PH is causing any issues though.
Whatever you do, do it slow. I find that many times, when we discover an issue, the proposed remedy is applied too fast, causing bigger problems.
-Robert
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I think 40˚ optics is a good idea simply because you have more options when it comes to intensity vs. coverage. All you have to do is adjust mount height to acquire desired intensity/coverage.
The best thing to do would be to get some PAR readings from these lamps.
Seeing that it is passively cooled, my bet is that they are running at 350mA, a very conservative setting to prevent overheating.
Just for reference (from Cree's datasheets):
XR-E outputs in lumens:
107 lum@350mA
160 lum@700mA 33% increase in output
210 lum@1000mA 51% increase in output
-R
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Rob, do you know at what current these PAR38 bulbs are driven?
-R
Complete Sump Failure
in General Discussion
My Stealth was luckily in my water change tub when I discovered it was stuck ON and leaking current into the water. I found out when I got a pleasant shock when I stuck my hand in the tub.
The RC post linked above contains postings from multiple users who have had failures with their stealth heaters, including explosion. I'm not sure how they can get away with releasing such a product. Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
-R