Anyone run 400w se xm 20k bulbs?

[dandy7200]

I am thinking a lighting change is in my very near future. Right now I am leaning towards a 400w se xm 20k on a m59 ballast wich should give the same par as a 250w se xm 10k on a m58 and higher than a e-ballast. I want to switch to a single bulb setup, want better color, and keep good growth. This will go on a luminarc A3 mini if I can get the 400w bulb to fit inside. Just curious if anyone in the club runs something similar.

[JMsAquarium]

I am thinking a lighting change is in my very near future. Right now I am leaning towards a 400w se xm 20k on a m59 ballast wich should give the same par as a 250w se xm 10k on a m58 and higher than a e-ballast. I want to switch to a single bulb setup, want better color, and keep good growth. This will go on a luminarc A3 mini if I can get the 400w bulb to fit inside. Just curious if anyone in the club runs something similar.

 

I used to run 2 x 400W 20K XMs with blueline e-ballasts. They were set up with spider reflectors over my 120G (48x24x24). Had decent growth but had nightmares with the temp. They were heating the water too much. Switched to T5s and couldn't have been happier. Growth exploded, water temp never raised above 79-80.

You may want to consider a chiller if you opt for 400 watters. Also, there's a par reading chart somewhere here on the boards. Read it, it will give you a good idea of the par ouput on different setups. The configuration of ballast-bulb-reflector is very much important. The same bulb with different ballasts and reflectors will give you different PAR output.

 

Happy reefing

[JMsAquarium]

I found it. It's linked to Dave's website

 

WAMAs PAR reading chart

[dandy7200]

I found it. It's linked to Dave's website

 

WAMAs PAR reading chart

 

 

Link doesn't work, but I use Sanjay's site for lighting stuff.

 

Temp I am obviously concerned about, but I have a few things working in my favor. AC vent directly over tank and keep my house pretty cool 72 degrees, open canopy design and fans. I have thought of many alternitives for this lighting setup inculding the close following options:

 

1. Keep my current lighting, 150whqi/pc actinics with decent growth but, crappy color.

2. 250w se xm 10k on parallel reflector with uri vho actinic

3. 250w se phoenix 14k parallel reflector with 6700k vho

 

 

I would like to accomplish a few things that lead me to the 20k 400w option:

 

1. One bulb

2. Can transfer lighting to future setup next year (wich I am almost positive will be running 400watters)

3. Stick to my sub $300 budget.

 

If I have to buy a chiller that would really suck and blow my $300 budget by a lot......

[JMsAquarium]

Sorry about that bad link, try this, it's on the 2nd post

 

http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?show...;hl=par+reading

 

 

The bulbs are great, I liked them. But the heat issue was a great concern for me. Over my 120, I could never get the temp under 80 at the coolest. Regularly spiked to 85 +/-. Since the whole setup was on my living room a chiller was out of question. I used two fans blowing permanently at the water surface. It did help some but it also meant about 15 gals of evaporation per week.

 

I understand your points and they are very valid. Take into consideration not only your future setup but also you actual one. Give some info on your existing tank as well as your future one and see what others that have similar tanks say about it. They are great bulbs, but they sure do pout out a lot of heat.

[Gatortailale]

dandy, few things:

 

1) what size tank do you have? 150 over deep tank could be a problem if its deeper than 24.

 

2) what bulbs are you using in your "150whqi/pc actinics." How old are the actinics?

 

- 250 20k SE bulbs stink as far as color and par go when run on blueline. I have used a xm 20 SE on blueline in past and had good color and growth. I currently use 3 x 400w xm 15k on blueline.

 

Par is the the sole factor in good growth and color of corals. There are plenty of members out there with sufficient par on their tank - but they don't get much color due to high nutrient levels and / or low alk levels. Lack of growth can be a sign of low calcium levels, mag. and other trace elements.

 

Before you spend on big lighting upgrade, make sure you have a good skimmer and good water quality. Second, I would try other brand of hqi bulbs. Only then, if still not getting results you want, would I consider buying more watts

[dandy7200]

dandy, few things:

 

1) what size tank do you have? 150 over deep tank could be a problem if its deeper than 24.

 

54 corner

 

2) what bulbs are you using in your "150whqi/pc actinics." How old are the actinics?

 

10k MH and dual actinics four months old both bulbs

 

- 250 20k SE bulbs stink as far as color and par go when run on blueline. I have used a xm 20 SE on blueline in past and had good color and growth. I currently use 3 x 400w xm 15k on blueline.

 

XM runs better on the ansi m57,m58,m59 ballast and bonus they are the cheapest ballast to buy.

 

Par is the the sole factor in good growth and color of corals. There are plenty of members out there with sufficient par on their tank - but they don't get much color due to high nutrient levels and / or low alk levels. Lack of growth can be a sign of low calcium levels, mag. and other trace elements.

 

No nutrient, alk, issues here. I have good growth and to be fair the color isn't that bad, I would just prefer to run 20k and that would be impossible on 150w HQI and get good par.

 

Before you spend on big lighting upgrade, make sure you have a good skimmer and good water quality. Second, I would try other brand of hqi bulbs. Only then, if still not getting results you want, would I consider buying more watts

 

I am actually thinking that I might be overskimming my tank.

 

The fixture is a Outer Orbit HQI, it runs on a e-ballast so unless I gut it and upgrade components then the best PPFD of 45 or so regardless of bulbs. It is my fault for not realizing how addicted I was to SPS so I bought the wrong fixture. The last time I set up a tank and gave SPS a shot I had bad luck (or skills). This tank I setup much differantly and SPS are thriving.

 

I am really hopin to acheive a PPFD of around 130 or so on 20k bulbs so this setup seems like it will be a good fit?

[Gatortailale]

Well, I tried to help but you didn't list

 

tank size

 

brand of current light bulbs and what K they are rated at. (example - xm, ushio, radium, AB)

 

 

also, I didn't ask, but helpful would be to list water params. and brand of test kit you use to test water. [salinity, calcium, alk, . . . all the good stuff]

 

blanket statement that you are overskimming in your opinion - doesn't tell us what brand skimmer you are using & what tests are you doing to verify this? (amonia, nitrite, nitrate, phos - are they all at 0?).

 

What type of water are you using - ro/di - and what is age of filters.

 

Just trying to help & maybe save you money, both in buying new equipment and electric bill.

[dandy7200]

I actually responded in the quote on my response but it didn't show up very well with the blue background. So I will list again witha little more details.

 

Tank is 54 corner.

Bulbs 10k xm de 150hqi on e-ballast, 2 55w dual actinics. All lights are 4 months old.

Testing done with Salifert, Lab grade PH probe and Refractometer:

 

Temp 79.9

Sal: 1.025

Ph: 8.12

No2: 0

No3: 0

Po4: .01

Nh3: 0

Mg: 1300

Ca: 410

Alk: 9.6dkh

 

Additionally setup includes 28g refugia, 30g equipment sump/cryptic refugia containing a PCI3000 skimmer, running carbon 24/7, running phosban 24/7, Geo612 Ca reactor.

Flow is Ehiem 1260 return on seaswirl at 500gph, Panworld 50px-x on CL with OM squirt at 1100gph. Top off is RO/Di. Waterchanges of 2quarts are done every single day.

I do believe I am overskimming the tank a bit, but that is because I only have 1 fish right now and that was added 2 weeks ago and not alot of fish food or poop is going into the tank. I plan on setting my Neptune to turn off the skimmer for a few hours after I feed and hopefully that will bring up the nutrient levels a little. Don't get me wrong here I am happy this is my problem rather than the other way around.

 

I do have good growth of all SPS in the system and the color is not aweful or anything like that, I just want a bluer look of 20k and more color in the coral themselves. I don't dose anything and don't really want to go down that road so I thought the 20k option would be best. I don't believe I could run a 20k xm bulb on my current lighting setup and get any substantial growth at all.

 

My feeling right now is that if I jump to 250w then I am probably still looking at supplimental lighting of some sort. If I make the jump to 400 then I think I might accomplish more of my goals as far as growth and color go.

 

Running the XM 20k on the Blueline ballast (Dr. Mac's Setup by the way) is more expensive in terms of setup and not the greatest yeild of par. The m59 ballast gets the most out of a xm bulb and the combo of bulb/ballast $ is so economical that I am really tempted to give it a shot. What were you growth/color experiences with the switch to 15k (lower par differant spectrum) vs. 20k and do you suppliment?

[traveller7]

Been running blueline 400w with XM20K's for quite some time, have tried just about every bulb and I prefer the single bulb ability of the 20K to produce the look I like.

 

My anemones don't grow fast.

Algae does not grow fast.

No corals in here.

32" tank depth.

LA3 compact fixtures, 400w SE with old Diamond mogul mount is a tight fit, very tight fit.

 

The bluelines burn the bulb with less heat/PAR/etc then then a magnetic.....this has been a blessing and a curse. IMHO the bluelines are extremely narrow in bulb selection, if you like to experiment, they are not a good choice. If you like to save electricity and BTU/hr they are a good choice.

 

fwiw: If I was buying from scratch for a tank yoursize, I would be getting SLS or PFO fixtures, 250DE bulbs, and IceCap ballasts. Much greater variety and compatibility with plenty of PAR.

 

fwiw2: I ran 3x150w over a similar tank, 2x20K and 1x6.5-10K with great results; 20Ks on for 12 hours, the higher par Iwasaki type on for 6 hours. This was very balanced, gave a good look, and great growth.

 

Best of luck and have fun

[Rascal]

Dandy:

 

I have no experience with those bulbs, but about three years experience with that exact same tank & lighting fixture (24" Outer Orbit HQI/PC combo?). I ran a Ushio 10K in mine and had good success w/ LPS but not so much with SPS. The only way to get enough light on them was to keep the fixture fairly low, which meant that the light was concentrated towards the center of the tank. It seems to me that if you raise the 400W high enough, you ought to be able to manage the heat issues. I also think that, given the shape of that tank, you almost have to raise the fixture fairly high in order to light the back and front corners of the tank, especially without using supplemental lighting.

 

Good luck and let me know how it goes. I still have the 54 Corner sitting in my carport and will probably be setting it up again some day, either for myself or a family member, so I am curious to see how your idea works out.

[dandy7200]

Thanks guys for the replies.

 

traveller7, that is interesting that the par drop coresponds to a heat drop, I never connected the two. As far as saving electricity, I think it is pretty much a toss up at this point, while I will be spending a little more per month on the bill, I would only be replacing 1 bulb with changes so I think it is a wash.

 

The point that Rascal made is where I am concrned with replacing my de with another de fixture. Right now I have the Outer Orbit (good guess man!) fixture at 8" off the water to spread the light out. I don't know how well the SLS RO3's spread the light (I know Sanjay has spec them but my brain is starting to hurt from spectral plotting data :wink: ) but that is not something I have ruled out at this point. If I were to go down that road I think the combo I would use would be the RO3 - PFO HQI ballast - Helios 20k (62PPFD) or Phoenix 14k (85PPFD). How do you guys feel about that one? This combo would raise par slightly from what I get with a 10k bulb on 150w and change the spectrum to something a little more color aggresive.

 

Again though I am concerned with the ability of a de fixture to cover the tank completely. I guess I need to grab a espresso and go back to the reflector annalysis archives.........

[traveller7]

traveller7, that is interesting that the par drop coresponds to a heat drop, I never connected the two.

Most of the energy sent to the bulb is dumped in the form of heat.

 

400w "HQI" ballast can easily pull more then 700w, most ballasts will send more to bulb; hence more heat and likely more light, hopefully more in the spectrum where PAR is available.

 

400w Bluelines pull 380watts each in my configuration. Less heat and less PAR are produced at the bulb end which has been accounted for in my application. Unfortunately, some bulbs don't burn at the desired color temperature with my Bluelines, hence my frank opinion: choose your bulb, then match your ballast to the bulb at desired color

 

Cheers.

[dandy7200]

Thanks, thats why my first choice was going to be the xm 20k on m59 ballast. Hoping to find someone in the club that has this combo so I could possibly see it in person before making final decisions.

 

Dan