TonyInVa December 20, 2009 Share December 20, 2009 I need to hook up a UV sterilizer, but dont have room in my sump. So I took out the pump for my phosphate reactor and put the pump for the sterilizer, then ran the ruturn to the phosphate reactor. I assume this will be ok. I had to run a T with a ball valve to reduce the flow to the reactor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boret December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 I don't see a problem, but if you are concerned you can always run the phosphate reactor first and then the UV. Look into the best/recommended GPH through the UV. The slower the higher the "kill" effectiveness of the UV. Based on that GPH you can decide if you are better off running it first or second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyInVa December 21, 2009 Author Share December 21, 2009 I don't see a problem, but if you are concerned you can always run the phosphate reactor first and then the UV. Look into the best/recommended GPH through the UV. The slower the higher the "kill" effectiveness of the UV. Based on that GPH you can decide if you are better off running it first or second. The UV needs a high GPH per manual. I purchased recommended pump. Reactor needed lower GPH so I used a ball valve to control flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHUBAKAH December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 Curious what GPH it is calling for through the UV? I've typically seen them right around 100GPH which is also what I hear for reactors. I'd also put the phosphate in front of the UV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyInVa December 21, 2009 Author Share December 21, 2009 Curious what GPH it is calling for through the UV? I've typically seen them right around 100GPH which is also what I hear for reactors. I'd also put the phosphate in front of the UV. I have the 40wt. http://www.current-usa.com/gammauvaquarium.html Max GPH is 2880 GPH. I am using a RIO 2100 which is rated at GPH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 I have no idea what the rio actually produces but I know for a fact that the 40w uv unit you have needs exactly 1/3 the flow rate the manufacture suggest. 30,000 uWsec/cm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 Depends on what you're trying to kill. 30k is good for algae and bacteria, which is typically all you want to try to kill in a reef tank. Dan is right about it being much too low if you're trying to kill ich and other protozoans. Here is a good reference for common targets. 30k will clarify water, reduce your glass cleaning frequency, and help prevent bacterial blooms, infections, etc. It will certainly not prevent ich outbreaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 Depends on what you're trying to kill. 30k is good for algae and bacteria, which is typically all you want to try to kill in a reef tank. Dan is right about it being much too low if you're trying to kill ich and other protozoans. Here is a good reference for common targets. 30k will clarify water, reduce your glass cleaning frequency, and help prevent bacterial blooms, infections, etc. It will certainly not prevent ich outbreaks. I agree with 30k killing algae, the problem is though that 95% of the people who buy these things are buying them in the hopes of controlling parasites. It's like Clorox putting mixing instructions of 3 drops/gallon on the side of the bottle. Sure it makes lake water safe to drink but, is that what the avg person is buying it for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyInVa December 21, 2009 Author Share December 21, 2009 I agree with 30k killing algae, the problem is though that 95% of the people who buy these things are buying them in the hopes of controlling parasites. It's like Clorox putting mixing instructions of 3 drops/gallon on the side of the bottle. Sure it makes lake water safe to drink but, is that what the avg person is buying it for? I am having a diatom issue. I know that I need to get to the source of the problem. But am hoping the UV sterilizer will help in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 I'm just taking a shot based on your join date and a quick look at other topics you have posted but....This is new tank syndrome. The "source" is actually a "sign" that your tank is maturing and that the nitrogen cycle is working correctly and that it can sustain algal growth. Time is the solution not UV and not po4 media. The other possibility would be silica or tank neglect over a long period of time, I don't know if you use a rodi filter or not but lacking one would cause silica issues. Stirring up a neglected tank would cause that diatom bloom as well. Good news is once the food runs out the diatoms will go away. I am not sure that running uv is going to have any effect on the diatoms. UV cannot kill any of the diatoms food source and the diatoms themselves are not free floating by nature unless at a plague like saturation. In short, there are lots of ways to take care of a diatom bloom, even in a mature tank, I however would never even think of UV as being one of the possible solutions to the problem. You are right about the UV helping in the future. There are a ton of benefits to using UV, many topics and discussions here and elsewhere about that for sure, just be sure to do some research on flow rates so you can get the most out of your unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyInVa December 21, 2009 Author Share December 21, 2009 I'm just taking a shot based on your join date and a quick look at other topics you have posted but....This is new tank syndrome. The "source" is actually a "sign" that your tank is maturing and that the nitrogen cycle is working correctly and that it can sustain algal growth. Time is the solution not UV and not po4 media. The other possibility would be silica or tank neglect over a long period of time, I don't know if you use a rodi filter or not but lacking one would cause silica issues. Stirring up a neglected tank would cause that diatom bloom as well. Good news is once the food runs out the diatoms will go away. I am not sure that running uv is going to have any effect on the diatoms. UV cannot kill any of the diatoms food source and the diatoms themselves are not free floating by nature unless at a plague like saturation. In short, there are lots of ways to take care of a diatom bloom, even in a mature tank, I however would never even think of UV as being one of the possible solutions to the problem. You are right about the UV helping in the future. There are a ton of benefits to using UV, many topics and discussions here and elsewhere about that for sure, just be sure to do some research on flow rates so you can get the most out of your unit. I am not sure what my problem is. I don't feel it is due to neglect. I tend to my tank daily. I do water changes regularly. I feel I have tried everything and can't figure out what is going on. Over feeding is not the issue. I have what I feel is alot of flow. I only have four fish. My join date is coincidental. I was looking to upgrade to a larger tank, because things had been going well for quit some time. Another site member suggested WAMAS to help find a used tank. This site has been more that just that. Shortly after joining my problems started. I am using an RO/DI unit. Which I am not sure if it could be some of my problems. With all that being said, I appreciate any feed back I can get. And am willing to try almost anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 How long has the tank been set up? What foods do you feed? What kind of substrate do you have? How much of it? Have added anything new to your tank lately? Is the stock list and tank size accurate in your sig? Do you have a po4 test kit? Which one? What were the results? What test kit are you using to determine 0 no3 in your sig? How much flow do you have? I see the pumps listed in your sig but does it cause the water surface to ripple quite a bit? Diatoms feed off co2 so good surface movement and gas exchange is crucial. What is tank ph? How do you test it? Do you have a UV unit? JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHUBAKAH December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 and lastly, how old are your bulbs in the T5 fixture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyInVa December 21, 2009 Author Share December 21, 2009 How long has the tank been set up? What foods do you feed? What kind of substrate do you have? How much of it? Have added anything new to your tank lately? Is the stock list and tank size accurate in your sig? Do you have a po4 test kit? Which one? What were the results? What test kit are you using to determine 0 no3 in your sig? How much flow do you have? I see the pumps listed in your sig but does it cause the water surface to ripple quite a bit? Diatoms feed off co2 so good surface movement and gas exchange is crucial. What is tank ph? How do you test it? Do you have a UV unit? JK Tank has been set up for just over five years. I use Formula 2 fish food. For the last two months only once a week. My substrate is a fine sand about 2 inches in the display tand and about 6 inches in the sump/fuge. Have not added anything to tank in about 6 months My po4 test kit is API. I don't remember the results, they were low. I will retest today. My test kit for no3 is API as well. I have now am using 3 tunze 6025 and 1 maxijet 1200. There is quit abit of ripple, but only on Tunze up top shooting across the surface. Ph is 8.2. Use API test kit. All bulbs were replaced on October 27 2009. Except fuge bulb about a year old. When I read your mention about c02, I remembered that I started adding vinegar to my top off water. I started this about 2 months ago. And did it for about 2 weeks. I was adding 15ml per gallon of top off. I read that this will increase c02 allowing the system to contain a greater amount of alkalinity and calcium. I am looking at the article now that caused me to do this. And it states that this would create a better food source for bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 Vinegar is a carbon source (acetic acid) and will fuel bacteria as you correctly read. I'm guessing this is helping your diatoms along. My guess is they got the upper hand somehow, and are outcompeting the "good" (i.e., invisible) bacteria that you want. You could stop vinegar and see if that helps. Also, if you are feeling up for a bit of an experiment, try adding one of the packaged off-the-shelf bacteria booster products while continuing to dose the vinegar. That might help boost the numbers of good bacteria and help drive off the diatoms. I would do this in combination with turning your lights off for 3-4 days to help starve out the (photosynthetic) diatoms. I would be interested to see if Prodibio's bacteria product works in this case. It shouldn't cost too much since you're only treating 50-60 gal total water volume. Others may have alternative bacteria suggestions; I know a few here use Neozeo brand products which I believe produce a bacteria boster. I do not use any of them myself so I can't say for sure which would be best. I would definitely like to hear your results if you go this route though. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyInVa December 21, 2009 Author Share December 21, 2009 Vinegar is a carbon source (acetic acid) and will fuel bacteria as you correctly read. I'm guessing this is helping your diatoms along. My guess is they got the upper hand somehow, and are outcompeting the "good" (i.e., invisible) bacteria that you want. You could stop vinegar and see if that helps. Also, if you are feeling up for a bit of an experiment, try adding one of the packaged off-the-shelf bacteria booster products while continuing to dose the vinegar. That might help boost the numbers of good bacteria and help drive off the diatoms. I would do this in combination with turning your lights off for 3-4 days to help starve out the (photosynthetic) diatoms. I would be interested to see if Prodibio's bacteria product works in this case. It shouldn't cost too much since you're only treating 50-60 gal total water volume. Others may have alternative bacteria suggestions; I know a few here use Neozeo brand products which I believe produce a bacteria boster. I do not use any of them myself so I can't say for sure which would be best. I would definitely like to hear your results if you go this route though. Good luck! With this being said, would it be a good idea to turn off the UV sterilizer. Since it is killing good and bad bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 With this being said, would it be a good idea to turn off the UV sterilizer. Since it is killing good and bad bacteria. No, I'd leave it running for now, as you seem to have more diatoms than anything else. If you do the bacteria boost then yes I would turn it off for a few days until the bacteria colonize the rocks/surfaces in the tank. Then run it again so any remaining free-floating diatoms are zapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 Are you adding kalk to your topoff water as well as the vinegar? At 2 tablespoons/gallon that will boost your ph and blow off excess co2 rather quickly, will precipitate some phosphates as well. Doesn't sound like no3 is the problem. po4 might be but I wouldn't trust your test kit on that one, I think if it was a big problem you would be seeing more advanced algae growth with some of the greens popping up. Silica could still be the issue, make sure your rodi filters are fresh. Make sure your magnesium level is sufficient as well since if you dose kalk the silica will bind to magnesium and precipitate as well. A couple days with the lights off is a good way to know down a chunk of it too. I'm not a big fan of adding a carbon source if it is not needed. Popping colors and fast growth can be achieved by simpler and more well understood and controlled methods. Can you post a picture of your tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHUBAKAH December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 I know a few here use Neozeo brand products which I believe produce a bacteria boster. That would be Micro Bactor 7, or what we call MB7. I've been running it with great success for about 16 months, and lots of people on RC swear by it. The downside is you can't run UV with it, and with most of these ULNS type set ups they say not to run GFO either. I've been running the GFO with my system, but I have to keep the ALK around 7 tops, otherwise I get some tips on my SPS burning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyInVa December 23, 2009 Author Share December 23, 2009 Are you adding kalk to your topoff water as well as the vinegar? At 2 tablespoons/gallon that will boost your ph and blow off excess co2 rather quickly, will precipitate some phosphates as well. Doesn't sound like no3 is the problem. po4 might be but I wouldn't trust your test kit on that one, I think if it was a big problem you would be seeing more advanced algae growth with some of the greens popping up. Silica could still be the issue, make sure your rodi filters are fresh. Make sure your magnesium level is sufficient as well since if you dose kalk the silica will bind to magnesium and precipitate as well. A couple days with the lights off is a good way to know down a chunk of it too. I'm not a big fan of adding a carbon source if it is not needed. Popping colors and fast growth can be achieved by simpler and more well understood and controlled methods. Can you post a picture of your tank? Tes I am adding kalk to my topp off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 December 24, 2009 Share December 24, 2009 Can you post a tank pic? How old is your ro membrane? What brand? Same with di resin? It may be the vinegar kick started a little nutrient bloom that had built up overtime in your SSB or may be po4 or silica. Since you are feeding so lightly and your bulbs are new (did you change spectrum at all?) the only food source that could be fueling this would seem to be water or a buildup of organics that are slowly starting to leach from the substrate and getting consumed faster than your test kits can measure them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyInVa December 25, 2009 Author Share December 25, 2009 Can you post a tank pic?How old is your ro membrane? What brand? Same with di resin? It may be the vinegar kick started a little nutrient bloom that had built up overtime in your SSB or may be po4 or silica. Since you are feeding so lightly and your bulbs are new (did you change spectrum at all?) the only food source that could be fueling this would seem to be water or a buildup of organics that are slowly starting to leach from the substrate and getting consumed faster than your test kits can measure them. I will post pics. I cuurently only know how to post a link to photobucket. Someone posted on a thread I posted links on how to get the picture directly on the thread. Can someone inform me on how to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 December 26, 2009 Share December 26, 2009 On the left side of photobucket there is a box with a few types of code in it. Select and copy the bottom one that says IMG code and paste it in this thread. Example: copy the code that looks like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyInVa December 29, 2009 Author Share December 29, 2009 A bit of an update. I did lights out for three days.(12-20 thru 12-23) Brown stuff is no longer visisble. Grey stuff still there but not as bad. I have been using a soft tooth brush, brushing over the gret stuff to remove, every couple of days. Here is how things look now. Pictures taken today Prior to lights out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 December 30, 2009 Share December 30, 2009 Looking pretty good. So, back up a little though. Did you change spectrum on the bulbs when you changed them? How old were your previous bulbs before they were replaced? Are you using a filter sock on the drain when you scrub? Do you use carbon? I know, I ask a lot of questions, it's ok, you can say it.... :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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