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SPS Dying Systematically, HELP.


CallMeJus

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2 minutes ago, CallMeJus said:

Also, would you recommend discontinuing the manual dosing and adding 2-part to my ATO? I’ve always been worried about it dosing too much or too little.

 

You don't want to add 2 part to your ATO, you'd want to use kalkwasser in your ATO. I've personally never gone that route, but I'm a firm believer of KISS. Keep It Simple (stupid), or the more PC version Keep It Stupidly Simple. I use ESV B-ionic 2 part because it counts for magnesium while it doses for alk/calk. So long as you use the correct ratio, there are a lots of ways to dose to keep things stable. There are a ton of different dosers out there that can help accomplish this, from the BRS ones all the way to, well, there's a lot of options. The big take away here is stability, and a doser can help you with that. 

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2 hours ago, YHSublime said:

7 month old tank. Softies are fine, SPS aren't. 

 

 

41 minutes ago, YHSublime said:

 And I don't think anybody said the reason you can't grow SPS is because your tank is young. 

  

 

Kinda read that as "sps aren't fine" in a young tank.

 

 

"Maybe you started with some really great cultured live rock. "

 

NOPE. Majority are dry man-made rocks.

 

"Maybe you've gotten SPS that has been continually fragged and passed around the club that can take a beating."

 

NOPE. Half are from online store or cultured from Australia.

 

"Maybe you've just been lucky. "

 

You just have to keep it stable and care for it. It's not LUCK.

Edited by littlelise1985
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24 minutes ago, YHSublime said:

 

You don't want to add 2 part to your ATO, you'd want to use kalkwasser in your ATO. I've personally never gone that route, but I'm a firm believer of KISS. Keep It Simple (stupid), or the more PC version Keep It Stupidly Simple. I use ESV B-ionic 2 part because it counts for magnesium while it doses for alk/calk. So long as you use the correct ratio, there are a lots of ways to dose to keep things stable. There are a ton of different dosers out there that can help accomplish this, from the BRS ones all the way to, well, there's a lot of options. The big take away here is stability, and a doser can help you with that. 

I'm going to look into 2-part more. It seems easier, especially in my case. I just stuck w/ the Seachem stuff because its what I learned from my LFS back in San Diego and it seemed to work well when I had the tank set up there.

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1 hour ago, CallMeJus said:


You think I should discontinue the reactor for now? Or go longer without water changes? at the moment I only have to clean the glass maybe every three days.


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Phosban reactor?  No but I think you may have to stop dosing 2 part (at least the Alk portion).  Test daily and take a look at your alk consumption.  

 

As far as water changes, you can still do them regularly but test the new water.  Some salt mixes have high alk/cal levels.  

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1 hour ago, CallMeJus said:


I was told that Alk on the higher end would help grow SPS but lower Alk would help coloration? Which is why I’ve kept it on the higher end up to this point.


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No. High alk will estimulate the coral to grow faster and if there is a lack in nutrients, you will see burned tips since the tissue cant keep up with fast growth.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, littlelise1985 said:

Kinda read that as "sps aren't fine" in a young tank. 

 

That's a little spin doctored. I paraphrased what the OP wrote in their original post.

 

8 minutes ago, littlelise1985 said:

You just have to keep it stable and care for it. It's not LUCK.

 

Absolutely. And younger tanks are harder to keep stable on their road to maturity. Especially when things are added to achieve a balance of "stability." 

 

We don't have to see eye to eye on this, but look over the overwhelming SPS questions posted on any forum, correlated to their tanks age. Either way, wasn't stated here, and this is a pretty far digression. 

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What basic parameters should I be shooting for for a Mixed Reef?

Cal in the 400s
Mag in the high 12-low 13 range
And Alk around 8?


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That's what my tank stays at

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And I dont dose anything at all. Just a calcium reactor. And lrs fish food. No coral food etc. And occasionally run gfo or carbon if need be but not all the time

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I dose kalk. I’m a big fan. I have a super simple setup: aqualifter, timer, 10 gallon tank. Timer has pump turn on for 5 minutes at a time, 8 times per night. This is just a little under my daily evap rate, so my ATO makes up the difference. I get balanced alk/ca addition without having the daily chore of adding two-part (I know myself. I’ll miss doses for sure). I never recommend to put kalk in an auto top off Incase it gets stuck on you can nuke your tank pretty fast without a controller, which I don’t have. 

 

I also keep it simple. I’m also a fan of starting really slow and only adding corals slowly over time as things become stable and really grow well. 

 

Despite what people describe on this and other forums, tanks under a year are notoriously “glitchy”. Can SPS be done really well on a young tank? Yes, but it’s incredibly hard. I’ve seen SOOOOO many tank build threads crumble after about 18 months because the owner built/stocked super fast, went through multiple swings of purchase/die wasting $100’s if not $1000’s.

 

With new tanks, I find it better to ride out the storms than add more gadgets and variables to an already complicated micro ecosystem. Water. Light. Flow. Working too hard to alter one will throw others out of whack.

 

I think others here are steering you in the right track. Something I try to remember in times like this that you’re facing (told to me by a very wise reefer back in my home club when I started): You came here asking questions. Swallow your pride and take the suggestions, don’t defend what and why you messed up. Learn, grow, and be open. (Not putting this all on you here, just a good nugget for many to remember).

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53 minutes ago, pizzaguy said:

And I dont dose anything at all. Just a calcium reactor. And lrs fish food. No coral food etc. And occasionally run gfo or carbon if need be but not all the time

 

Just want to clarify as to not confuse the OP, the calcium reactor handles the balance of Alk/Calc in Pizzaguy's tank, which is a gigantic SPS heavy display tank. 

 

Here's a great video from BRS on Alkalinity. 

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9 hours ago, CallMeJus said:

What basic parameters should I be shooting for for a Mixed Reef?

Cal in the 400s
Mag in the high 12-low 13 range
And Alk around 8?


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My opinion, you want to stay as close to natural sea water parameters as possible. I cant think of much of that does better outside of it's natural habitat, why we believe corals to respond differently seems odd to me. 

 

Typical natural sea water parameters:

 

Alk - 7.5 dKh (I typically run about 6.5-7.5)

Ca - 420ppm

Mg - 1315ppm

PO4 - anything detectable while remaining low as possible

NO3 - anything detectable while remaining low as possible

 

If you don't have a specific need for an item, it shouldn't be activated on your tank (i.e. phosban). If your phosphates aren't high (above .2), there isn't a reason to use it. While high alkalinity may need higher nutrient levels (NO3 and PO4), lower alkalinity levels do not and they aren't harmful at elevated levels either. Evaluate your hardware and determine if specific items are needed base on your current results. Everything is nice to have, this doesn't mean it needs to be running 24/7.

 

Corals need to eat but this doesn't mean you need to throw the kitchen sink at them. My opinion again but Reef Roids, Phytofeast, and all those other "coral" foods are 100% unnecessary if you're feeding your fish. Our acroporas are quite healthy and I've never added anything to the tank besides 2 part, magnesium (hand dosed because very little is used), food for the fish, and water changes. 

 

Relying on somebody else for quality water has zero upside outside of convenience. Mixing your own gives you 100% control over quality and consistency.

 

Water flow is essential for healthy SPS. Many people see their corals flowing wildly and think they have too much current but this is rarely the case. You don't want the flow to be violent but you want to be moving a lot of water (we have two MP40s on our 75g that are running at 100%, anti-sync, Reefcrest). 

 

Lighting is typically something I look at last now. Initially, I thought it was the most important thing and that I needed to blast SPS but over the past few years, I've discovered that most SPS will survive (and grow) in 100 PAR. While this isn't ideal, it works for the vast majority of them we see in the hobby so I don't place it high on the priority list for troubleshooting acropora health. You don't need crazy amounts of blue and super low levels of white; the ratio can be 50/50 without issue. While it's true that blue spectrums penetrate further than others, it's absolutely false that the acropora's aren't receiving the suns full spectrum as the vast majority are in less than 10m of water. Blue looks good to some people but again, dont expect your corals to thrive in conditions that don't replicate their natural environment as best as possible. 

 

Your millepora is an acropora species and will react in the same manner as the others. 

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4 hours ago, overklok said:

Your water is too clean.

Your alkalinity is too high for clean water.

You have too many alkalinity swings.

I didnt notice any nutrient levels being posted. 

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Also, it's important that you know the range of values of your salt. Salk like IO tend to have high alkalinity. Sometimes you do a lot to control Alk, but then perform a WC and it goes out of track again.

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On 3/25/2019 at 6:55 PM, epleeds said:

I’m guessing you have several issues going on. 

 

By the looks of it you have burnt tips from tips from high ALK and dying from the base which could be New tank syndrome, not enough flow, or a combination of both. 

 

What light are u running over the tank?

 

On 3/25/2019 at 6:58 PM, gioNVA said:

Based on your description, you are most likely at low or ultra low nutrients.  Alk may be too high for a low nutrient system.  

 

I agree with both of these. Low nutrients and high alk (10+) is known to burn SPS tips. Check your PO4 and NO3 levels with a quality test kit before concluding that you're running a ULNS (ultra low ntrient system).Then, if you determine that you're ULNS, try lowering your alkalinity to 8 to 8.5. You may even have to trim those burnt tips back to stop any infection that might be entering the soft tissue there.

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