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jason the filter freak

Looking for plumbing feedback (see pic)

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How would there be only water [no air] above the valve but not below it? 

Edited by madweazl

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15 minutes ago, madweazl said:

How would there be only water [no air] above the valve but not below it? 

 

If you had a wide diameter pipe and a mostly-closed valve like in Alan's sketch above.  And the end of your drain pipe is not submerged in the sump.  Then water would fill the upper portion of the drain pipe, but only a small stream would squirt past the valve into the bottom pipe.  The water would "fall" through the bottom pipe into the sump due to gravity, instead of flowing through the pipe.  You'd never get a siphon below the valve.  

 

Of course, that's a poor way to design your overflow.

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The drain and return has not much to do with in tank circulation. 

 

You should match the amount draining out with the amount you can comfortably get over your overflow with good surface skimming but without a lot of splashing and make sure it's enough that you aren't skimming the same water in the sump over and over because you aren't moving enough water through it.  

 

If you're adapting a reef ready plumbing kit (usually with one big hole and one small hole) to a Herbie configuration use the narrow hole for the full siphon with a gate valve down by the sump and the wider one as your emergency.  The small one will carry more than enough water for most tanks while in full siphon, even if it's just a 3/4" one.  The larger diameter emergency will then be guaranteed to carry the whole flow if the siphon plugs up.  If you run them with the large one as the full siphon, there's no guarantee that the narrow one can take the whole flow going down the larger one in siphon and you could end up with water on the floor.

 

You'll fight with a ball valve trying to get the siphon dialed in so that the water level is at the right spot in the overflow box to prevent splashing there, but save a few bucks buying a ball valve instead of a gate valve if you really want to.  It's not what I would do.

 

The check valve on the return can be nice even if you design your sump so that it can take all of the back-siphon when the pump shuts off.  It's just convenient not to have it all drain into the sump sometimes.  I never put in check valves because I always did water changes from the sump.  I wanted the back-siphon to fill the sump so I could then kick on a little utility pump in the sump to push out the old water, then fill it up with new, then turn on the main pump to let it all settle down again.

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@AlanM

 

Its a kit that came with 3 bulk heads and some misc 1" plumbing. Im doing all my own pipe and drain fittings.

 

I am using a gate valve on the drain. 

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@AlanM @DFR @Jon Lazar @madweazl @malacoda @zygote2k etc. Blood, sweat, and almost tears 6 hours and 4 trips to the hardware store to rebuild my sump setup, return manifol, and drain setup just because a bunch of people on the internet told me to 😓. And i wouldn't have it any other way. I really appreciate all the input. 

 

I added a ton of head pressure to get the manifold to fit in such a small spot. But now i have straight drains and a new sump configuration 

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3 hours ago, AlanM said:

Pics or it didn't happen! 

Unions will be used on the drains.

 

A ball valve to add back pressure will be mounted inside the display over flow

20190321_202646.jpg

Edited by jason the filter freak
Cuz reasons darnit

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Nice job!  You’ll find that to be all around better and will add more flexibility.

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Thank you everyone!! Im 95% done with my plumbing. Im waiting on a single union ball vavle which are super rare, weird. 

 

Cant wait to glue and leak test. 

20190402_213240.jpg

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A standard durso standpipe and a filter sock In the sump creates a silent setup.

i run numerous setups like this with no noise.

In the 28 years of service, I’ve only seen 2 drain failures that resulted in an overflow. 

Herbies and Beans are a waste of money and space in my opinion.

Gate valves are used in places where the torque from a ball valve might cause an issue.

A check valve is a $20 solution for peace of mind.

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Looking at your pic, I see that you’ve used the expensive valves used in commercial applications.

BRS sell grey economy gate valves far cheaper than those.

ball valves should never be used near a bulkhead as it will generate torque that can loosen a water tight seal.

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3 hours ago, zygote2k said:

Looking at your pic, I see that you’ve used the expensive valves used in commercial applications.

BRS sell grey economy gate valves far cheaper than those.

ball valves should never be used near a bulkhead as it will generate torque that can loosen a water tight seal.

@zygote2k

The ball valves I used are from supply house, cheaper than BRS and of equal or higher quality. The gate valve is from BRS its the "higher quality" one that can be pulled apart to service.

 

I have moved all valves away from bulkheads. Which actually resulted in one inside my overflow 😆

Edited by jason the filter freak

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