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Can trash bins leach ammonia?


mari.harutunian

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Remember, if ammonia is being absorbed from the air, it's acting like fertilizer. If the levels aren't high, it'll quickly get picked up by your biological filtration and, its byproducts, by the plants.

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8 hours ago, Origami said:

Remember, if ammonia is being absorbed from the air, it's acting like fertilizer. If the levels aren't high, it'll quickly get picked up by your biological filtration and, its byproducts, by the plants.

 

Algae. Maybe I should do an ammonia test of my new water. I never test for ammonia except for in a QT. I hope ammonia in the air isn't the reason for my algae problem.

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Remember, if ammonia is being absorbed from the air, it's acting like fertilizer. If the levels aren't high, it'll quickly get picked up by your biological filtration and, its byproducts, by the plants.


Good point. Hadn’t thought of it


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Algae. Maybe I should do an ammonia test of my new water. I never test for ammonia except for in a QT. I hope ammonia in the air isn't the reason for my algae problem.


Do you happen to have a cat?


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2 cleaned mason jars, 300 ml of tap water both tested at the start @ 6:35 pm 4/2 negative for ammonia. Jar #1 is in upstairs spare bedroom previously used as an area to mix water. Jar #1 @12:38am 4/3 registers .5 ppm already and even smells like ammonia. Jar #2 is on the floor below on the opposite end of the house and does not smell like ammonia or register any when tested at 12:50am 4/3.

Time elapsed is over 6 hours so could it be fair to say my tank could be taking in 1ppm ammonia every 12 hours??? How much ammonia gas does it take to make 300 ml of water get to .5 ppm ammonia in 6 hours????? Any chemists and mathematicians?


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Just throwing ideas out here.... But is it possible that a pet (yours or previous Tennant's) peed on the carpet? The pad underneath as well as the carpet itself could have absorbed it and the dampness in the room is enabling it to become a gas and go airborne?

From the link below:
"When dried urine is remoistened, it gives off an ammonia gas."

https://cleanasawhistlehouston.com/urine-damage/

Not exactly a scientific source but it would make sense.




-A-a-ron

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Intriguing results, Mari. You'd probably need more data points taken over longer period of time to estimate final concentration in the sample. I'm guessing that an initial mathematical model equation would probably follow an asymototic exponential form like c(t) =C*(1-exp(-rt)) at the roott. This approach neglects losses (e.g. due to bacterial consumption) though. The model would be far more complex, I think, to trace back to concentration in the air. There are probably existing dissolved-gas models (involving a bunch of partial pressures and such) that could be applied here.

Needless to say, you have ammonia in the air upstairs. Is there a kitty litter box nearby? Alternatively, there have been incidences where some pets develop the nasty habit of urinating directly into tanks.

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Someone in that other thread mentioned byproducts from mold may produce ammonia??

 

The concept that keeps coming back to me from reading that other thread, is that people kept pointing towards old pet stains as a possible ammonia source. I'm not sure I buy into that thought. Unless the damage from old pet stains leads to rot/mold, once the wetness goes away, the ammonia should have had a chance to out-gas. A current litter box very near your water bin might be able to provide the recurring ammonia source. Is the result of your test the same if you do a different room on the same floor? 

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Someone in that other thread mentioned byproducts from mold may produce ammonia??

 

The concept that keeps coming back to me from reading that other thread, is that people kept pointing towards old pet stains as a possible ammonia source. I'm not sure I buy into that thought. Unless the damage from old pet stains leads to rot/mold, once the wetness goes away, the ammonia should have had a chance to out-gas. A current litter box very near your water bin might be able to provide the recurring ammonia source. Is the result of your test the same if you do a different room on the same floor? 

 

That will be my next test but instead of using the water jars I’m ordering test strips meant to test ammonia gas concentration. When those arrive I’m just going to test everything.

 

Also I’m highly allergic to mold and have had a lot more allergies since moving to this house. We had a black mold problem in the basement when we got here. There’s a leak in my ceiling??? Because My room is backed against the fireplace.

 

 

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Intriguing results, Mari. You'd probably need more data points taken over longer period of time to estimate final concentration in the sample. I'm guessing that an initial mathematical model equation would probably follow an asymototic exponential form like c(t) =C*(1-exp(-rt)) at the roott. This approach neglects losses (e.g. due to bacterial consumption) though. The model would be far more complex, I think, to trace back to concentration in the air. There are probably existing dissolved-gas models (involving a bunch of partial pressures and such) that could be applied here.

Needless to say, you have ammonia in the air upstairs. Is there a kitty litter box nearby? Alternatively, there have been incidences where some pets develop the nasty habit of urinating directly into tanks.


The ammonia gas test strips I’m getting may shed more light on this. The litter box is in the same room but all the doors are open and it’s cleaned regularly. Both pets are unable to urinate into anything that tall but for all i know they could be urinating in the corner of the room. A UV light may be in order.


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Just throwing ideas out here.... But is it possible that a pet (yours or previous Tennant's) peed on the carpet? The pad underneath as well as the carpet itself could have absorbed it and the dampness in the room is enabling it to become a gas and go airborne?

From the link below:
"When dried urine is remoistened, it gives off an ammonia gas."

https://cleanasawhistlehouston.com/urine-damage/

Not exactly a scientific source but it would make sense.




-A-a-ron




That’s very possible. We have all new hardwood since 4 years ago when we moved but the previous owner has 3 dogs and a cat. It could have soaked into the wood even.


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5 hours ago, mari.harutunian said:

The ammonia gas test strips I’m getting may shed more light on this. The litter box is in the same room but all the doors are open and it’s cleaned regularly. Both pets are unable to urinate into anything that tall but for all i know they could be urinating in the corner of the room. A UV light may be in order.
 

 

With Spring almost here (technically, it is here), you can throw open the doors and windows to ventilate the space and try your test again. The best test would be to move the litterbox (even temporarily) and ventilate. But your cats may not like you messing with their private place. ;-)

 

Ammonia is highly soluble in water and you can expect anything coming off the litterbox and into the air is also impacting the tank surface and entering the water. It will be more concentrated in the room that the box is in as long as the ventilation to other spaces is passive diffusion (that is, no fans).

 

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With Spring almost here (technically, it is here), you can throw open the doors and windows to ventilate the space and try your test again. The best test would be to move the litterbox (even temporarily) and ventilate. But your cats may not like you messing with their private place. ;-)
 
Ammonia is highly soluble in water and you can expect anything coming off the litterbox and into the air is also impacting the tank surface and entering the water. It will be more concentrated in the room that the box is in as long as the ventilation to other spaces is passive diffusion (that is, no fans).
 


I did ventilate between the first and second set of jar tests. Litter box only moved to a different room corner. Air test strips arrive Mondayish so we’ll see.

Would Ventilation be minutes, hours, or days???


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I did ventilate between the first and second set of jar tests. Litter box only moved to a different room corner. Air test strips arrive Mondayish so we’ll see.

Would Ventilation be minutes, hours, or days???


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If using a fan and if the box were moved, I'd hope that it would only be hours. But it's hard to know if it's soaked into other surfaces.

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If ammonia (i.e. cat pee) has soaked into carpet/padding/flooring, how long would it take to out-gas? My anticipation is that the volume of ammonia needed present in a room which would affect water quality would not be present without some continually refreshed source of the contaminant. Old pee (my guess) would have a decaying concentration, thereby affecting the air/water less as time goes on as it continually evaporates. So, old pee just wouldn't have the ammonia content to keep hosing things up. IDK, maybe I'm off, but if it were me I'd be far less concerned about old issues, and more concerned about things actively happening.

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If ammonia (i.e. cat pee) has soaked into carpet/padding/flooring, how long would it take to out-gas? My anticipation is that the volume of ammonia needed present in a room which would affect water quality would not be present without some continually refreshed source of the contaminant. Old pee (my guess) would have a decaying concentration, thereby affecting the air/water less as time goes on as it continually evaporates. So, old pee just wouldn't have the ammonia content to keep hosing things up. IDK, maybe I'm off, but if it were me I'd be far less concerned about old issues, and more concerned about things actively happening.


I agree. I just don’t know what the continuous source would be, whether it’s my cats continuous use of the litter box or something else.


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Most likely the cat box/ soiled areas and/or the combination of  black mold is to blame for NH3 spike. Ventilation is only a band aid. Get a UV light find the area and clean/ neutralize it. Remediate the mold (very important) and get a lid for the brute.

I find it interesting that no one has asked what the repercussions are regarding  the elevated NH3 level.

 

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On 4/1/2019 at 4:07 PM, mari.harutunian said:

 


Do you happen to have a cat?


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Yep, and I am pretty sure one of them peed a few times in a sump I used to have (can't get to the current ones).

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30 minutes ago, treesprite said:

 

Yep, and I am pretty sure one of them peed a few times in a sump I used to have (can't get to the current ones).

That's where I remember that from! Thanks, Forrest. 

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Most likely the cat box/ soiled areas and/or the combination of  black mold is to blame for NH3 spike. Ventilation is only a band aid. Get a UV light find the area and clean/ neutralize it. Remediate the mold (very important) and get a lid for the brute.
I find it interesting that no one has asked what the repercussions are regarding  the elevated NH3 level.
 


I’ll go around with a black light just to see. And this isn’t really a “spike” I’ve been dealing with relentless hair algae for this tanks entire life. I’ve lost one fish to mystery illness and have had to do many emergency water changes because my clowns display symptoms of ammonia poisoning(usually right after a different water change because the old water accumulated ammonia,much to my confusion.) The repercussions are dead sticks, buckets of HA removal, a whole lot of confusion, and a general lack of enthusiasm for the hobby. It’s very hard to see something I love just be a box of filth. Oh and lots of dead snails. They die off.


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Yep, and I am pretty sure one of them peed a few times in a sump I used to have (can't get to the current ones).


That’s so weird. My old cat used to poop in the toilet unprompted though so i guess its not that weird.


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(edited)

WELL I can thank you, Mari, for your thread because I finally just now got around to testing my clean water and it does have ammonia in it.

 

It must be ventilation for me, because I did not have this problem in my old place where I had 3 cats not just the 2 that are here. Here, there is only one window in the main area, which is a sliding glass door that has no screen component so I don't leave it open (cats will run out and bugs will fly in). I better solve that ventilation problem then see what happen. I am going to buy some kind of ammonia media to use while I am trying to get the airborne ammonia problem solved.

 

I wonder how many other people out there are also having this issue behind their aquarium woes. I always associate poor ventilation with pH problems, but would never have guessed this ammonia situation.

 

Maybe we need a sticky post on the effects of air quality components on water quality  and the potential associated issues (like low pH, algae, and others). The post would need to include some air quality control solutions.

Edited by treesprite
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WELL I can thank you, Mari, for your thread because I finally just now got around to testing my clean water and it does have ammonia in it.
 
It must be ventilation for me, because I did not have this problem in my old place where I had 3 cats not just the 2 that are here. Here, there is only one window in the main area, which is a sliding glass door that has no screen component so I don't leave it open (cats will run out and bugs will fly in). I better solve that ventilation problem then see what happen. I am going to buy some kind of ammonia media to use while I am trying to get the airborne ammonia problem solved.
 
I wonder how many other people out there are also having this issue behind their aquarium woes. I always associate poor ventilation with pH problems, but would never have guessed this ammonia situation.
 
Maybe we need a sticky post on the effects of air quality components on water quality  and the potential associated issues (like low pH, algae, and others). The post would need to include some air quality control solutions.


Wow! the cats and ventilation seem to be the answer. I’m looking at this litter called Lucy Pet Cats Incredible litter that claims to prevent ammonia gas for 10 days after cat has used the litter. Looks pretty reputable but I’ll order it and test with my air ammonia test kit every few days to see how effective it really is.

I’m glad this frustrating question has helped someone else, though!


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