Alkalinity and PH

[ImGoingCoastal]

Did a test and both seem low but not extremely.....

 

PH is around 7.6-7.8 and ALK is around 90 ppm.....

 

So just a bit low.

 

First question is there something that I'm missing that I should be monitoring as to why these are low.

 

Second question, any thoughts on how to gradually increase it?

 

All other parameters look normal. Temp is at 86.

 

 

-A-a-ron

 

 

[ImGoingCoastal]

My calcium seems high as well but if I recall correctly, that may be directly related to the alk/pH issues.

-A-a-ron

[dpassar12]

90 ppm is low ( about 5.01DKH) normal range in ppm  is 145->155 (8.1-8.6 DKH). You should be able to safely raise it .5->1.0 DKH daily 10->19 ppm. I would be concerned with your tank temperature, 86 seems really high IMO. I run my tank at 77-78. At 82 my lights will shut off for 30 mins. I would monitor your ALK everyday for a week and see how much your tank is using on average per day and adjust your dosing. 

[ImGoingCoastal]

I'm and idiot and was typing faster than I was thinking. It's 76, not 86. Haha

Do you recommend baking soda to raise the alk?

-A-a-ron

[dpassar12]

How big is your tank? Do you dose 2-part?

[ImGoingCoastal]

Tank is a tiny 20 gallon. I don't really dose as I don't feel I have enough coral to justify that... I do weekly 5g water changes using IO salt.

The tank is about 4 months old. I guess it's about time to start a tank thread.

Thanks for the input.

-A-a-ron

[dpassar12]

I would just raise it through water changes, esp since you don't have a lot of corals, Test your new water and make sure  the ALK is > 140 ppm. your alk will rise with the changes. Maybe do an extra change every week to raise it. Good luck. 

[bues0022]

Magnesium? IIRC, low mag can mess up the alk/Ca balance and make it difficult to raise one of them. 

[ImGoingCoastal]

Hm. Interesting thought. I'll have to check it out.

-A-a-ron

[Origami]

2 hours ago, bues0022 said:

Magnesium? IIRC, low mag can mess up the alk/Ca balance and make it difficult to raise one of them. 

Low magnesium doesn't mess up balance so much as it can lead to abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate, lowering both. The precip will lower both in accordance with their stoichiometric ratio (big word for what basically refers to the chemical formula) of 20 ppm calcium for every 50 ppm (= 1meq/l = 2.8 dKH) of alkalinity. 

 

ImGoingCoastal - Are you performing regular water changes? If so, on what schedule? Certainly you can rebalance (and increase) your ionic balance with water changes. You can also target raising alkalinity using baking soda. If you were to go the baking soda route, I'd suggest that you use Jose Dieck's Reef Chemistry calculator located here.  After inputting your numbers, and selecting Baking Soda as your means of supplementing alkalinity, it'll tell you the amount to use and how to dose it.

[ImGoingCoastal]

I've been doing weekly 5 gallon water changes.

I'm going to do another on today. I'm also going to check the alk of the freshly mixed water.

-A-a-ron

[bues0022]

19 minutes ago, Origami said:

Low magnesium doesn't mess up balance so much as it can lead to abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate, lowering both. The precip will lower both in accordance with their stoichiometric ratio (big word for what basically refers to the chemical formula) of 20 ppm calcium for every 50 ppm (= 1meq/l = 2.8 dKH) of alkalinity. 

 

 

Thanks for clarifying. My memory was obviously faulty with thinking about raising/lowering them both (thinking 1:1), when it's really 2:5 - hence my faulty logic.

 

 

[ImGoingCoastal]

Just tested again.

Fresh mixed water is around 160ppm

Current tank water is at 100ppm

Calcium is at 400ppm this time.

Nothing really looks upset or anything. Just read an article about how higher pH helps coral growth, so I decided to test all parameters since I havent seen any additional polyps form on my zoa's in the 2-3 months that I've had them.

-A-a-ron

[DFR]

Usually if things are happy I’d say leave it alone.

One things that you may want to consider in the future is switching to a salt with higher levels (like reef crystals if you are happy with instant ocean).  Those elevated levels will give you more of a buffer between water changes as your corals begin to consume more calcium and carbonate.

You could also start using kalk as that’ll increase your pH and replenish your major elements.

[WheresTheReef]

Your tank is still very young. Tom actually describes in the link below how the nitrogen cycle plays into alkalinity consumption. When my tank was less than a year old it was consuming way more alk than calcium. Then all of a sudden things balanced out. May or may not apply to your situation.

https://wamas.org/forums/topic/86043-why-does-a-tank-only-neeed-alkalinity/?do=findComment&comment=740300

[ImGoingCoastal]

Yeah, I'm trying to avoid knee jerk reactions.

Just noticed that alk was low and was wondering if raising it would be a bad idea.

I've actually been quite impressed with my patience with this tank (that's not to say I haven't had some impatient moments). I learned a lot from my previous 3 tanks but I know I still have plenty plenty left to learn. I could keep a reef tank for my entire life and still find new stuff to learn daily I'm sure.

-A-a-ron

[Origami]

3 hours ago, bues0022 said:

 

Thanks for clarifying. My memory was obviously faulty with thinking about raising/lowering them both (thinking 1:1), when it's really 2:5 - hence my faulty logic.

 

Just note that two part is usually mixed up to provide a concentration that's pre-balanced in accordance with the 20:50 ratio. That is, it's designed so that you use it 1:1 (to make it easy for the end user). The stoichiometry is such that when you see a 50 ppm drop in Alkalinity (technically, it's ppm CaCO3 equivalents, but that's floobydust) (or 2.8 dKH), you'll (ideally) see a corresponding 20 ppm drop in calcium. It can vary by as much as 5+% from this ideal ratio because the magnesium ion can be mixed in with some coral skeletons as a substitute for calcium at the atomic level.

 

 

2 hours ago, ImGoingCoastal said:

Just tested again.

Fresh mixed water is around 160ppm

Current tank water is at 100ppm

Calcium is at 400ppm this time.

Nothing really looks upset or anything. Just read an article about how higher pH helps coral growth, so I decided to test all parameters since I havent seen any additional polyps form on my zoa's in the 2-3 months that I've had them.
 

 

Aaron, it you're doing 25% water changes every week and seeing that much drop, you've got some calcium consumption going on. It may be time to start dosing with calcium/alkalinity/magnesium.

 

BTW, the 60 ppm drop in alkalinity corresponds to a 24 ppm drop in calcium, meaning that (ideally) your water probably started out at around 160 ppm (~9.0 dkH) and 424 ppm calcium, which is in the range of what I'd consider normal. As noted earlier, 100 ppm Alk is low and can cause tissue recession in some SPS corals.

 

Here's a good, practical article to read about solving calcium/alkalinity problems.

 

Before you do this, please check your salinity using something trustworthy (e.g. a recently-calibrated refractometer). You want to make sure that your salinity isn't behind some of the unusually low numbers.

 

 

[ImGoingCoastal]

Well I haven't calibrated my refractometer in the past 3-4 months but it's reading 1.025. I do have SPS in there, just never realized I had enough to consume that much calcium in a week. The slimer is growing noticably and it's fairly large for the tank. It may be to blame. I'll have to research dosing again. Thanks for the info!

-A-a-ron

[realypk]

I sorted similar issues out with kalkwasser a while back, slowly upping my ph by .05 per day till i got to the alk/ph level i wanted and then  figured out consumption levels, way easier than mass water changes

[ImGoingCoastal]

Thanks!

I'll look for 2 part and kalk tomorrow.

Mass water changes on a Nuvo 20 are pretty simple though. I just didn't realize I had enough SPS in the tank to deplete the levels that quick.

-A-a-ron

[realypk]

Gotcha ya 20 would be easier

 

i had no clue that bacteria could eat up alk/ph/calcium until reading this thread! Always wondered why my tank used it with my tiny frags

Edited March 4, 2019 by realypk

[ImGoingCoastal]

Anyone have a specific 2 part they recommend?

-A-a-ron

[realypk]

I just used standard kalkwasser, but after doing research I intend on going to ATI Essentials Pro which is a 2 part all encompassing dosing system. Right now I have no need though from what I can tell... dont think my corals are using all the trace elements up rapidly enough to dose yet. So Kalkwasser is great for a start and its just one thing. I added it bit by bit till i got to a level i wanted, then I added kalkwasser to the ATO to keep it stable. Upping the amount in ato bit by bit till i saw no more drop in DKH/PH

 

To just get you DKH/PH where you want it I think simpler is better, you dont want to overdose trace elements on accident getting you to appropriate levels. Then you can use ATI essentials to maintain things. Or just keep kalkwasser if it works cause its so darn cheap and easy to use. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by realypk

[Origami]

1 hour ago, ImGoingCoastal said:

Anyone have a specific 2 part they recommend?
 

For alkalinity, unless you have a really low pH problem, I recommend using plain old Arm and Hammer baking soda. For calcium, I recommend using either ESV's calcium chloride or BRS' calcium chloride. (BRS will probably be cheaper.) For magnesium, it's probably easiest to go with BRS magnesium chloride with an occasional supplementation of Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate). (I've used different ice-melt products for calcium and magnesium in the past and, while they work fine, they're not products where you're guaranteed a level of quality.)

 

Read these:

 

An Improved DIY Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System (2006, RHF)

 

Instructions page at BRS for some of their products.   

 

Keep in mind that both the DIY and the BRS solutions are just about the same. The only difference is the proportions used in the magnesium supplement. In that, RHF uses a higher proportion of sulfate than BRS (for some reason). In these cases,

 

* The calcium supplement is calcium chloride (a widely available winter ice melt).

* The alkalinity supplement is sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or baked baking soda (soda ash, for low pH systems).

* The magnesium supplement is a combination of magnesium chloride (a widely available winter ice-melt) and magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts from the drugstore).

 

 

[ImGoingCoastal]

Well I actually have mag left over from my old tank (minerals don't expire right?! Haha)

But I'll definitely check out the links. I was actually reading them before.

I'm wondering if (since my pH is low) if kalk is a good option for me?

-A-a-ron