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Instant Ocean vs. Reef Crystals


WheresTheReef

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I'm familiar with how these differ in the big 3 elements. However, I'm curious how many people run regular IO salt over RC in mixed reef tanks. I currently use RC and have dosers so would it be a big jump to move to IO? I don't mind spending a little more on salt to maintain a happy reef, but what about the minor trace elements which I never test for? What about experiences with changing at the end of a box vs mixing them together to transition?

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It probably wouldn’t shock the system too badly if phase it in over time. You may need to ramp up dosing a bit. I switched back 4 years ago and it’s like it never happened. My local petco sells the purple bucket for $29 and I haven’t looked back since.

 

 

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What do you keep your big three at?

 

I run my tank at:

 

Alkalinity - 7-7.5 dKh

Calcium - 400-425

Magnesium - 1300-1350

 

If those are parameters you're comfortable running, Instant Ocean is a good choice at 35ppt (I use muriatic acid to lower the alkalinity). If  you like levels that are higher, Reef Crystals is probably an easier option for you. I don't think there is a good reason to run levels outside of that range but we all have our preferences. 

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It probably wouldn’t shock the system too badly if phase it in over time. You may need to ramp up dosing a bit. I switched back 4 years ago and it’s like it never happened. My local petco sells the purple bucket for $29 and I haven’t looked back since.

 

 

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Thanks for your experience.

 

What do you keep your big three at?

 

I run my tank at:

 

Alkalinity - 7-7.5 dKh

Calcium - 400-425

Magnesium - 1300-1350

 

If those are parameters you're comfortable running, Instant Ocean is a good choice at 35ppt (I use muriatic acid to lower the alkalinity). If  you like levels that are higher, Reef Crystals is probably an easier option for you. I don't think there is a good reason to run levels outside of that range but we all have our preferences.

 

My Mg is a little low right now, but around

 

Alk: 9.3-9.45

Ca: 420

Mg: 1260

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Try not to over complicate it just do smaller but more often water changes with switching to IO. It’s cheaper, has all of the same stuffs in it, maybe just a tad less. Just monitor the big 3 during transition keep them on track and you will be fine. If you dose regularly and see a number creeping down a tad fast then just dose more of that to try to keep it in line. I don’t think trace element is anything to worry about until things are so overgrown.

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I just always remember copps saying he used RC. I figure if it's good enough for his tanks, it's good enough for mine. I use RC, but I keep levels closer to what weazl is at, and that's with 5 gallon water changes on a 35 gallon setup. I'm mixing up some RC tonight, I'm going to test a fresh batch tomorrow and see if I'm doing something wrong here. 

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Yes, Copps uses RC. For him, it's worth the time savings not to fiddle with adding a little more calcium and alkalinity. You can pretty much do the same with IO and tweak parameters. Once you have a formula for what you want to do, you can pretty much reuse it as you go. IO is, by far, the best selling salt out there.

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I need to give reef crystals another try. But I quit 4 years ago because I saw extra crud lining my garbage can. I mix it in the garbage can. I’m wondering if that is precipitate is from the extra stuffs in it, making it harder to dissolve?

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I need to give reef crystals another try. But I quit 4 years ago because I saw extra crud lining my garbage can. I mix it in the garbage can. I’m wondering if that is precipitate is from the extra stuffs in it, making it harder to dissolve?

 

I still see that. I just cleaned my water mixing pump up, and it's coated in brown stuffs. I don't worry about it. 

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I've heard explanation that it's clay (or something similar) that's been added as an anticaking agent. It happens with IO, too. I've never worried much about it.

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27% more cost for RC. Although the cost of calcium and mag would be hard to calculate to bring the IO up to RC stats. Great price ERC 264708ad49b84cf067bef7a8a45a4676.png

 

 

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Way back, I used to supplement IO regularly to elevate both Ca and alkalinity. Back then, it was fairly common knowledge that IO mixed up to much lower levels of alkalinity than it does today. Today, it's a much better product for reefers just as it is. Supplementing IO to elevate ionic content obviously depends on having reliable numbers for your starting point. As history has shown, manufacturers may adjust their formulas over time to accomodate their user base.

 

I just stumbled across this guy's salt tests posted in April 2017 according to Google. He's in Europe (Poland), though, and that may change results if the formulation of the various salts tested are changed any from that sourced here. He used both Triton and MarinLab (both perform ICP-OES for elemental analysis) tests to characterize saltwater samples mixed to 35 ppt. Alk tests were performed by Hanna and MarinLab. Anyway, his test results shows the following for IO and RC for the big 3 that we're often concerned with:

 

Reef Crystals

  • Ca 478 ppm (avg)
  • Alk 12.23 dKH (Hanna))
  • Mg 1382 ppm (avg)

Instant Ocean

  • Ca 399 ppm (avg)
  • Alk 11.04 (Hanna)
  • Mg 1246 (avg)

If you look at the article, you might be surprised at the difference in the alkalinity of RC when tested by MarinLab: It was way lower than expected. Most all other results were in good agreement with the Hanna test. Because we hobbyists generally agree that RC has slightly better alk than IO, I went ahead and took the Hanna numbers as "truth" and listed them rather than to use the average of the two tests.

 

So, Gmerek posted a "question" about how much supplement to add to boost IO to RC levels. Assuming that we're mixing up 10 gallons of regular saltwater to 35 ppt, and using this guy's numbers, you'll need the following:

 

  • 10.9 grams (or about 2.1 tsp) of Calcium Chloride dihydrate (more common than the anhydrous version) to raise calcium from 399 to 478 ppm.
  • 1.3 grams (or 0.2 tsp) of (Arm and Hammer) Baking Soda to raise alk from 11.04 to 12.23 dkH.
  • 42.9 grams (or 10.2 tsp) of Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate (again, more common) to raise Magnesium from 1246 to 1382 ppm. Alternatively, you can use 50.7 grams of Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulfate Heptahydrate, from the drugstore) to do the same. If I was forced to choose just one of the two, my first choice would be the Mag Chloride just to cut back on the sulfate addition.

(It's best to mix each of these separately in some RO/DI or distilled water before stirring it into your saltwater.)

 

So there you go... how to supplement IO to RC levels.

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Yep. I, too, just read that post this morning. Also I've been trying to decide b/w IO and RC to minimize dosing. Right now I use Coralife, and I have to dose 2-part to keep up.    

 

The numbers are subject to change as manufacturers adapt their formulas to their market's demands. So it's good to try to find current numbers when searching the net. But I was also cautious about using numbers coming from Poland because the factory that makes their IO apparently is located in France. I'm pretty sure that my IO doesn't come from France.  ;)

 

Dosing is normally used to account for and match your tank's consumption, not to adapt your change-water to a desire baseline. (I guess that I don't call that dosing in the common sense of how we use it.) If your tank inhabitants are using up the calcium, magnesium and alkalinity in your tank to lay down calcareous structures, then levels will drop unless you're supplementing or performing frequent water changes (and occasional big ones). It doesn't take too many corals before you'll find yourself supplementing.

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I use RC, and just FYI I have noticed the pH sits around 7.8. So if that is low for you- if you are not otherwise dosing then something to consider.

I have seen many people with the same experiences too with RC.

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I use RC, and just FYI I have noticed the pH sits around 7.8. So if that is low for you- if you are not otherwise dosing then something to consider.

I have seen many people with the same experiences too with RC.

The final pH of any salt mix is going to be largely based upon ambient CO2 in the air. RC should initially mix up with a fairly high pH. As the dissolved CO2 comes into equilibrium with atmospheric CO2, the carbonate system (CO2, HCO3-, CO3--) finds a balance point set by the pH. Unless the tank has some other source of pH shifting component (organic acids, for example), this should be largely set by CO2. Although, other buffers might be present in the salt that help with the pH. (For example, I saw in that guy's post that there were higher levels of Boron found in RC that might account for higher pH, not lower, since borate alkalinity would see a boost.)

 

Another thing to be mindful of when checking pH is calibration. If depending upon absolute measurements of pH, it's important to use a calibrated probe for the measurement - calibrated against trusted reference standards, that is. Personally, I don't trust the colorimetric tests much. Further, I'm not all that concerned with pH absolutes either.

 

BTW, in my experience, a pH of 7.8 is more typically seen in a tank with a calcium reactor. I'd suspect either the test or the air in the house.

 

There's a fairly simple test that you can perform to see if low pH that you're measuring in your tank is coming from the air: Just take a cup of your tank water and measure the pH. Then, take it outside and aerate it (air pump and air stone) for 20 minutes and take the test again. If you see a significant shift in pH to higher numbers, then the air inside your house has elevated CO2. (That, of course, comes from us air-breathers that live inside and a nicely sealed up house.)

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Result from my last two ICP suggest the magnesium is a bit higher (1300-1350).

 

ATI results. This test was completed when I had the bucket of IO that was very high in magnesium (first time I'd encountered that from IO). You can see current levels in my AquaticLog results in the signature.

 

Triton results.

 

The two Tritons prior to that were 1371 and 1356 (believe they were both with RC but I cant recall).

 

Of note, salinity for the ATI test (calculated from the macro elements) was 35.78 and 34.13 for Triton. 

 

I don't dose magnesium. 

Edited by madweazl
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The numbers are subject to change as manufacturers adapt their formulas to their market's demands. So it's good to try to find current numbers when searching the net. But I was also cautious about using numbers coming from Poland because the factory that makes their IO apparently is located in France. I'm pretty sure that my IO doesn't come from France.  ;)

 

Dosing is normally used to account for and match your tank's consumption, not to adapt your change-water to a desire baseline. (I guess that I don't call that dosing in the common sense of how we use it.) If your tank inhabitants are using up the calcium, magnesium and alkalinity in your tank to lay down calcareous structures, then levels will drop unless you're supplementing or performing frequent water changes (and occasional big ones). It doesn't take too many corals before you'll find yourself supplementing.

Understood.

 

These are Coralife salt parameters off DFS website: 

Specific Gravity: 1.021-1.023

pH: 8.2 to 8.3

Calcium: 390 to 410 ppm

Magnesium: 1,110 to 1.250 ppm

 

With weekly 10 gallon WC on my ~44 gallon system;

SG: 35ppt

Alk~ 8.6ppm

Cal~380ppm

Mg~1250ppm

Tested w/ Salifert kits a few hours after WC. So, right away I have to lock in the Mg and Cal, then add Alk every two days to keep it at 8.0-8.6. Would be nice to have Cal and Mg a little higher for the base line.     

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