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Anemone and Mandarin Dragonet


lynn.reef.nerd

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Hello,

 

I need some advice. I am starting a tank mainly for anemones and some fish. I tried looking for information regarding having the mandarin with anemones and cannot seem to get a straight answer.  Is it wise to have a pair in a tank with about 4 anemones? This is a 45 gallon (Red Sea Max E-170).

 

Thank you.

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Buy the captive bred biota ones they come wired to like both pods and pellets and may quickly learn to take frozen. Mandarins In a 45, especially a pair will lose weight quick. The captive bred ones will be your only chance :( unfortunately I added a pair in my 65 and they had the pod population wiped out in a week. Removed them to my larger tank when lateral line showed first signs

Of weight loss, to keep it on track my tanks both have 1 anemone

Edited by gmerek2
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Buy the captive bred biota ones they come wired to like both pods and pellets and may quickly learn to take frozen. Mandarins In a 45, especially a pair will lose weight quick. The captive bred ones will be your only chance :( unfortunately I added a pair in my 65 and they had the pod population wiped out in a week. Removed them to my larger tank when lateral line showed first signs

Of weight loss, to keep it on track my tanks both have 1 anemone

 

+1 on this. I've gone through several mandarins, one of those fish that I won't keep anymore. I've tried in established tanks, and also feeding pods (this get's expensive.) I've tried ones that eat frozen, and those that don't. I wouldn't suggest mandarins in any tank under two years old, I would be more concerned with that than the anemones. I have kept them with anemones for a short time period, to keep on track. 

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I can tell you about my experience with anemones and a new tank (40IM). I added two anemones when my tank was 1-2 months old and I can tell you that is better to wait a bit more before adding them to a new tank. A 45g  is relatively a small  tank where  parameters change very quickly and  anemones do not like this. Both of them lost all of their tentacles and I lost hope. I was giving up but kept feeding them. As the tank matured they regained their tentacles and are thriving. I later got a third one and this one did not go through any issues at all because the tank was more stable. I do recommend that you get an ATO system to help with salinity.

 

As recently as yesterday, I placed an order for a Biota Mandarin and I expect to receive it tomorrow. I've been doing some preparation for it (seeding my tank with copepods, adding marine pure bioballs to the back of my all-in-one tank to serve as a "pod refugium", and also bought a 1 gallon tank to use it to cultivate more pods in case the refugium is not enough.

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Thank you for all your help. I did not plan to add any of these items as of yet. These are just plans that I have in my head and just want to make sure everything is "good" before finalizing the plans. I actually did consider the biota mandarin and actually have tried raising copepods in a 10 gallon tank to feed them (not much luck so far).  I get the tisbe from HOT and feed them phyto, but it has been months and I don't see any babies. Anyone has luck? I don't have a refugium.

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Thank you for all your help. I did not plan to add any of these items as of yet. These are just plans that I have in my head and just want to make sure everything is "good" before finalizing the plans. I actually did consider the biota mandarin and actually have tried raising copepods in a 10 gallon tank to feed them (not much luck so far).  I get the tisbe from HOT and feed them phyto, but it has been months and I don't see any babies. Anyone has luck? I don't have a refugium.

 

Here's a good guide for cultivating pods. Maybe the temp dont let them reproduce as much?

https://www.themandaringarden.com/how-to-culture-copepods.html

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Besides the mandarins - I'm a little concerned about that many different species of anemones in such a small tank. Perhaps you might get a bit more lucky, but I've known people to have issues with just having an LTA and BTA in the same tank. The theory that is tossed around is some kind of biological warfare between them. I'm still on the fence if the different species of nems are actively putting out chemicals to attack one-another, but I've seen/read more cases of problems with multi-nem species tanks than peace (problems especially seem to happen with a LTA in the mix). Condy's are also not a natural host anemone, and have been known to be fish eaters in some people's tanks - but then again a Haddoni is a "host" nem and I've seen one eat a clownfish.

 

Why are you trying for so many different species of anemone's? If this is your first go at any anemone I would strongly suggest starting with a single species (BTA in my opinion). Of the four you say you want, it's a fairly forgiving species, host anemone for some species, readily available via propagation, and comes in a variety of colors. Make sure to protect your overflows and powerheads. 

 

LTA's can be a good anemone, but are harder than BTA's - especially during acclimation to your tank. Sebae's are more difficult still, and I'm not a big fan of Condy's - they don't associate with any clownfish, pack a potent sting, and is known to wander around.

Edited by bues0022
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If you’re set on getting a mandarin for a 45, Id go with a spotted mandarin as opposed to a green mandarin. They stay much smaller and in my experience take to frozen foods much more quickly. 45 is way too small for a pair unless you’re doing the Paul b thing and feeding baby brine shrimp every day.its possible to keep one in a tank that size if you’re willing to target feed every day a few times a day, but the reality is that most will slowly starve. Even if you’re cultivating pods, keeping up with a mandarin’s ridiculous appetite is a challenge given their digestive systems. Not trying to be a jerk, you just have to really know what you’re getting yourself into when you pick one up. I had a spotted mandarin for a year in a 40 breeder and that fish took more work to keep healthy than all of the others combined.

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FWIW, I have a Biota mandarin in a 12g with no refugium and it is growing pretty quickly and always looking very well fed. When it first came I'm from liveaquaria, it was quite emaciated and very small (<1") though. For the first several months I was hatching artemia a couple times a week and feeding them every day alongside a wide variety of small frozen foods (cyclopeeze, R.O.E, "reef plankton", tobiko, etc.). I've now weaned off of the artemia and am feeding entirely frozen once a day. I think the small size of my tank actually helps with feeding frozen because I can create a high density of food pretty easily. It may be harder to create such conditions in a larger tank. Also, the Biota mandarins come in so small that you might have difficulty finding them even in a 45g until they grow out a bit. It's hard to target feed them if you can't find them easily in the tank.

 

There are also a couple of BTAs in the tank and the mandarin doesn't have any trouble picking at the rocks right around them.

Edited by ScooterTDI
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FWIW, I have a Biota mandarin in a 12g with no refugium and it is growing pretty quickly and always looking very well fed. When it first came I'm from liveaquaria, it was quite emaciated and very small (<1") though. For the first several months I was hatching artemia a couple times a week and feeding them every day alongside a wide variety of small frozen foods (cyclopeeze, R.O.E, "reef plankton", tobiko, etc.). I've now weaned off of the artemia and am feeding entirely frozen once a day. I think the small size of my tank actually helps with feeding frozen because I can create a high density of food pretty easily. It may be harder to create such conditions in a larger tank. Also, the Biota mandarins come in so small that you might have difficulty finding them even in a 45g until they grow out a bit. It's hard to target feed them if you can't find them easily in the tank.

 

There are also a couple of BTAs in the tank and the mandarin doesn't have any trouble picking at the rocks right around them.

 

Awesome! Thank you! I have an old 14 gallon biocube that might be perfect. I might try to keep the mandarin in there until I can get them healthier and used to eating frozen. How often do you feed a day?

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When it first came in, I was feeding twice a day. Now I just feed once a day.

FWIW, I wouldn’t call it long term success. It’s still, In the grand scheme of things, very new to you! I’m glad to hear it’s doing well.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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No, not long term success, but so far, so good. In my experience, it does seem much easier to acclimate these Biota mandarins than wild ones. I could have just gotten lucky though. I generally think there is a lot of questionable information regarding mandarins that gets often repeated, but isn't necessarily true. In my experience, they don't need to eat a prey item every 10 seconds to grow and thrive. They can eat a meal once or twice a day so long as they actually have a sufficient density of food and are given enough time to really fill up. I turn the pumps off for at least an hour when feeding.

Edited by ScooterTDI
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No, not long term success, but so far, so good. In my experience, it does seem much easier to acclimate these Biota mandarins than wild ones. I could have just gotten lucky though. I generally think there is a lot of questionable information regarding mandarins that gets often repeated, but isn't necessarily true. In my experience, they don't need to eat a prey item every 10 seconds to grow and thrive. They can eat a meal once or twice a day so long as they actually have a sufficient density of food and are given enough time to really fill up. I turn the pumps off for at least an hour when feeding.

 

I don't disagree that there is some misinformation, but also, I do think there are a bunch of folks that will take their time to turn off their pumps every single day and spot feed for an hour. At least long term. Just my two cents! 

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  • 4 weeks later...

There's also some cool gadgets you can buy/make that help with feeding. Think about a small three sides box filled with egg crate or other porous material. Culture pods in that for a little bit and then you can put that in your display hidden somewhere in the rock work. The open side allows the Mandarin to pick at pods on the top, but the design prevents them from eating all while providing a "safe space" for the pods to self culture. If you also target feed your Mandarin at that point every day, they can be taught to go there automatically for feedings. Melevreef on YouTube also has a good idea using an olive jar for his Mandarin that ate prepared foods.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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Besides the mandarins - I'm a little concerned about that many different species of anemones in such a small tank. Perhaps you might get a bit more lucky, but I've known people to have issues with just having an LTA and BTA in the same tank. The theory that is tossed around is some kind of biological warfare between them. I'm still on the fence if the different species of nems are actively putting out chemicals to attack one-another, but I've seen/read more cases of problems with multi-nem species tanks than peace (problems especially seem to happen with a LTA in the mix). Condy's are also not a natural host anemone, and have been known to be fish eaters in some people's tanks - but then again a Haddoni is a "host" nem and I've seen one eat a clownfish.

 

Why are you trying for so many different species of anemone's? If this is your first go at any anemone I would strongly suggest starting with a single species (BTA in my opinion). Of the four you say you want, it's a fairly forgiving species, host anemone for some species, readily available via propagation, and comes in a variety of colors. Make sure to protect your overflows and powerheads.

 

LTA's can be a good anemone, but are harder than BTA's - especially during acclimation to your tank. Sebae's are more difficult still, and I'm not a big fan of Condy's - they don't associate with any clownfish, pack a potent sting, and is known to wander around.

8374fe5d3ddc5e020f04e505bbaa5108.png

c459ffee0c8405100f3fa9ed885c4c2d.jpg

Have 7 Nems in here. 3 different species. Clarkii loves his Condi

Spends his days in the LTA and sleeps in the Condi. Never gives the BTAs a second look.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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