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Calcium reactor flow rate not steadily.


rvu1710

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Hi! I just start up my calcium reactor for 3 week running water with co2.

I use maxijet 1200 feed pump and use the input valve to slow down to the rate i need and not to get high presure in the reactor. Then use needle valve to turn the rate to exact rate i want.

However, the flow rate just decrease after few days.

So can any expert help me out for this...i read some where they said it cause by air get trap in the line. And i need to use mainpump to get water input.

 

 

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Use a peristaltic pump instead of a maxijet. It works much, much better at delivering a constant rate. Then, put the pump on a timer to control total volume through the reactor. If you're using a controller like an Apex, you can turn the pump on for some number of minutes every hour. Tuning then becomes a matter of adjusting the duty cycle (time on/total time).

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I have my reactor plumbed off a tee from the return pump.  I use to control flow with a needle type valve, but it kept clogging.  Now I control flow with an inline 1/4 inch ball valve (Mur-lok valve) and no longer have issues with blockage.  Every 6 months when I pull my reactor out to re-fill or service, I take the time to clean all tubes and valves to mitigate clogs.

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Tom, what do you think would be the best way to retrofit a peristalic pump into my calcium reactor? If you look at my attached picture, the blue circled blue pipe shows the ouput drip pipe into my sump and the red circled black pipe is the input from my sump via a Maxijet. Woud the best solution be to run the peristalic in place of the Maxijet, pushing water into the reactor through the red circled black feed pipe currently running my Maxijet and returning to the sump via the blue circled blue pipe? Or should I have peristalic pump pull from the reactor via the red circled black pipe and return to the sump via the peristalic pump. This scenaro would turn the blue circled blue pipe into the feed pipe from the sump .  

post-2631791-0-64800000-1523618846_thumb.jpg

Edited by overklok
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I have mine set up like this.  So it would be on the output.  But that is because I do not feed mine with a pump.  I think you could put it on either line in your case.

 

york08.jpg

 

 

Actually, mine is set up like this so I can scrub CO2 and raise pH.

york09-2.jpg

Edited by bbyatv
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For over 10 years now, I've had mine set up much like Bruce shows in the top diagram except for the following:

 

1. I take my source water off of a pressurized manifold rather than a separate pump in the sump.

 

2. My peristaltic pump lies between my manifold and the reactor. That is, it "pushes" water into the reactor rather than pulling from it. This leaves the reactor in an essentially unpressurized state.

 

The basic principle here is

 

Dose = effluent_concentration * dosed_volume,

 

which is the same as

 

Dose = effluent_concentration * dose_rate * total_time_dosing

 

Controls:

 

a) Effluent concentration: pH in the reactor controls the concentration of the solution/effluent. Effluent pH is monitored by a probe mounted directly in the reactor. (If your reactor does not have a probe port, you can add one easily enough using a probe mounting gland, but it requires drilling and tapping.) Water circulates continuously in the reactor chamber and when the pH gets above your target level, CO2 is injected into the reactor to lower the pH (acidify the water). The pH in the reactor is inversely proportional to the concentration of dissolved coral skeleton media (that is, the calcium and alkalinity-enriched tank water in the reactor). The lower the target pH, the "richer" (more concentrated) the solution. (Too low, though, and your media turns to mush. Too high, and the effluent will be "thin" and you'll need to dose a high volume to meet demand. Clearly, you need a controller to keep the pH stable inside the reactor.

 

b) Dose rate: Set by the peristaltic pump delivery rate. Some pumps are fixed, some are variable. Normally, I just set a rate and leave it. My pump is set up to deliver 30 ml/minute, for example. 

 

c) Dose time: An intermittent timer turns the peristaltic pump on and off. I use my Apex to perform this job. I dose intermittently throughout the day but you can set it up any way you want it. For example, I may have my pump on for 15 minutes every hour (25% duty cycle), 24/7/365. That's 24 smaller doses through the day. And, at 30 ml/minute - that means 450 ml of enriched effluent per dose 24x per day.

 

The parameter that I use to assess dosing sufficiency is tank alkalinity. Since a calcium reactor doses alkalinity, calcium, magnesium and a few trace elements in proportion to their concentration in the coral-skeleton media, tracking alkalinity in your tank means that you're probably tracking the other parameters pretty reasonably. To tune the dosage, I'll monitor alkalinity over a period of time (24, 48 or 72 hours). If it's falling, I'll bump up the dose time - e.g. 16 minutes per hour to use the previous example.

 

You can adjust any of the three parameters in the equation that I show above. Time is the easiest once things are dialed in somewhat. If I feel like the pump is working too hard (is on too much and not off enough), I may speed up the dose rate and lower the time it's on, keeping track of the math (which is pretty straightforward). And, if I want to boost the concentration of the enriched water, I lower the target pH setpoint in the reactor. These are less common adjustments. Once they're within a certain operating range, you'll normally not touch them unless you have a good reason.

 

Once dialed in, a calcium reactor can maintain a mature tank's alkalinity, calcium and other levels sometimes for months on end with just occasional spot-testing.

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What pump do you recommend? I see this one on BRS DREW'S DOSER PERISTALTIC DOSING PUMP. It looks like I can hook it up to my AC3, yes I am still using my AC3!!

 

Thanks for the advise. I think I will hook up the peristalic pump to pull water from the sump and push it into the reactor and drain out of my drip pipe.

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I have my reactor plumbed off a tee from the return pump. I use to control flow with a needle type valve, but it kept clogging. Now I control flow with an inline 1/4 inch ball valve (Mur-lok valve) and no longer have issues with blockage. Every 6 months when I pull my reactor out to re-fill or service, I take the time to clean all tubes and valves to mitigate clogs.

I use the same murlok valve but 1/2” for input, then output with needle valve...by some how it stay just for few day:(

 

 

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For over 10 years now, I've had mine set up much like Bruce shows in the top diagram except for the following:

 

1. I take my source water off of a pressurized manifold rather than a separate pump in the sump.

 

2. My peristaltic pump lies between my manifold and the reactor. That is, it "pushes" water into the reactor rather than pulling from it. This leaves the reactor in an essentially unpressurized state.

 

The basic principle here is

 

Dose = effluent_concentration * dosed_volume,

 

which is the same as

 

Dose = effluent_concentration * dose_rate * total_time_dosing

 

Controls:

 

a) Effluent concentration: pH in the reactor controls the concentration of the solution/effluent. Effluent pH is monitored by a probe mounted directly in the reactor. (If your reactor does not have a probe port, you can add one easily enough using a probe mounting gland, but it requires drilling and tapping.) Water circulates continuously in the reactor chamber and when the pH gets above your target level, CO2 is injected into the reactor to lower the pH (acidify the water). The pH in the reactor is inversely proportional to the concentration of dissolved coral skeleton media (that is, the calcium and alkalinity-enriched tank water in the reactor). The lower the target pH, the "richer" (more concentrated) the solution. (Too low, though, and your media turns to mush. Too high, and the effluent will be "thin" and you'll need to dose a high volume to meet demand. Clearly, you need a controller to keep the pH stable inside the reactor.

 

b) Dose rate: Set by the peristaltic pump delivery rate. Some pumps are fixed, some are variable. Normally, I just set a rate and leave it. My pump is set up to deliver 30 ml/minute, for example.

 

c) Dose time: An intermittent timer turns the peristaltic pump on and off. I use my Apex to perform this job. I dose intermittently throughout the day but you can set it up any way you want it. For example, I may have my pump on for 15 minutes every hour (25% duty cycle), 24/7/365. That's 24 smaller doses through the day. And, at 30 ml/minute - that means 450 ml of enriched effluent per dose 24x per day.

 

The parameter that I use to assess dosing sufficiency is tank alkalinity. Since a calcium reactor doses alkalinity, calcium, magnesium and a few trace elements in proportion to their concentration in the coral-skeleton media, tracking alkalinity in your tank means that you're probably tracking the other parameters pretty reasonably. To tune the dosage, I'll monitor alkalinity over a period of time (24, 48 or 72 hours). If it's falling, I'll bump up the dose time - e.g. 16 minutes per hour to use the previous example.

 

You can adjust any of the three parameters in the equation that I show above. Time is the easiest once things are dialed in somewhat. If I feel like the pump is working too hard (is on too much and not off enough), I may speed up the dose rate and lower the time it's on, keeping track of the math (which is pretty straightforward). And, if I want to boost the concentration of the enriched water, I lower the target pH setpoint in the reactor. These are less common adjustments. Once they're within a certain operating range, you'll normally not touch them unless you have a good reason.

 

Once dialed in, a calcium reactor can maintain a mature tank's alkalinity, calcium and other levels sometimes for months on end with just occasional spot-testing.

Thank you...i always think like calciumreactor need to circulation through the tank all time. Unless i do that, it will get mess in the calcium reactor. Like you said if the calcium reactor keep the same pH all the time, it create the same amount element right the number just like we mix the soda ash to bottle? I mean like my tank need 2dkh every hour. Then i can set the ph to 6.9 to create enough 2dkh every hour for 24 dose. Or i can set at 6.5 to create 24dkh to if i dose 2x aday?....i just confuse a little bit right there....

Anyway, i think i can understand your method a little...

 

 

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What pump do you recommend? I see this one on BRS DREW'S DOSER PERISTALTIC DOSING PUMP. It looks like I can hook it up to my AC3, yes I am still using my AC3!!

 

Thanks for the advise. I think I will hook up the peristalic pump to pull water from the sump and push it into the reactor and drain out of my drip pipe.

Drew's doser is too slow. It's fixed at 1.1 ml/minute, isn't it? That's fine for two part (where you have two separate concentrated solutions), but not so good for calcium reactors (where the solutions can't get that concentrated, because it's all in one).

 

I use a lab-grade digital Masterflex pump, 7523-60 with an EasyLoad head. I just happened to come upon a bunch of them at a steal years ago and ran a group buy for them. Find a pump with a good flow rate and a vernier adjustment if you can. The pump that Bruce has pictured in his graphic above is a Masterflex with an analog vernier. If you're lucky, you can find them for about $50-$70 on ebay sometimes. In most cases, you're looking for a motor drive and a pump head. Sometimes they're sold in combination, sometimes you buy them piecemeal. 

 

Masterflex / Cole Parmer 77240-10, 100 RPM (variable) Drive w/ integrated head

 

Cole-Parmer 7543-06 Drive w/ pump head (fixed rate, can deliver 1 liter per hour with the right tubing)

 

Typical Masterflex 7520-00 analog-controlled variable speed drive with pump head  << This is specified at 6-600 rpm, I believe. The 7016-21 pump head is fixed for L/S 16 tubing. Use the Masterflex tubing chart to determine the range of flow rates that a particular drive + head combination provides. For example, L/S 16 tubing supports flow rates of 4.8 to 480 mL/minute for a 6-600 rpm drive. 

 

I hope this helps. 

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Any of those u just sold is good to buy? I will buy one..i know about this before and have noticed 500$ each:(

 

 

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Thank you...i always think like calciumreactor need to circulation through the tank all time. Unless i do that, it will get mess in the calcium reactor. Like you said if the calcium reactor keep the same pH all the time, it create the same amount element right the number just like we mix the soda ash to bottle? I mean like my tank need 2dkh every hour. Then i can set the ph to 6.9 to create enough 2dkh every hour for 24 dose. Or i can set at 6.5 to create 24dkh to if i dose 2x aday?....i just confuse a little bit right there....

Anyway, i think i can understand your method a little...

 

 

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Different media from different companies often dissolve a little differently, unfortunately. So it's almost always a little trial and error at the beginning. Typically, you'll keep your reactor anywhere from 6.3 to 6.6 plus or minus a little. For example, mine is set up to add CO2 when the pH hits 6.4 but to stop when it drops down to 6.33. There's no easy way (that I know of) to go from pH to ionic concentration that would apply universally to all our setups. You just have to start somewhere reasonable and make adjustments to dial it in.

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Different media from different companies often dissolve a little differently, unfortunately. So it's almost always a little trial and error at the beginning. Typically, you'll keep your reactor anywhere from 6.3 to 6.6 plus or minus a little. For example, mine is set up to add CO2 when the pH hits 6.4 but to stop when it drops down to 6.33.

Can i ask if ph maintain at the number you want then the media dissolved continuous or just create exact the amount of that rate then stop...i just feel like if i dose it too low it could be come mess if i dont dumb it in to tank:(...

I use reborn with the vertex reactor.

I have read some where the alternative method where i keep the output over drip then drop the ph down until i touch the tank demand...do you think i could be any problem with that or that could use up much more co2?

 

 

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Can i ask if ph maintain at the number you want then the media dissolved continuous or just create exact the amount of that rate then stop...i just feel like if i dose it too low it could be come mess if i dont dumb it in to tank:(...

I use reborn with the vertex reactor.

I have read some where the alternative method where i keep the output over drip then drop the ph down until i touch the tank demand...do you think i could be any problem with that or that could use up much more co2?

 

The media only dissolves to the point at which it saturates for a particular pH. That's what you're aiming for because it creates what I'll call "deterministic dosing." That is, a steady value of solutes (dissolved solids) in the effluent solution (the enriched calcium reactor output). So, in your way of saying it, it creates an exact amount and then stops. This way, it's like dosing anything else: Add x to get y. Add 2x to get 2y. In mathematical terms, it's a linear transfer function.

 

The drip method is a pain in the butt because (and almost all of us have seen this happen to us that tried it), the end of the microvalve gets clogged and the dripping slows or stops. Then we don't discover it until our alkalinity crashes. Some people try to get by this by opening the microvalve up and running a steady stream of a less-concentrated effluent. While that can fix the clogging problem, it's subject to variation in pump pressure changes and can be harder to dial in if you have to make changes.

 

For me, the peristaltic pump method uses more equipment, but is far easier to adjust and more reliable.

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The media only dissolves to the point at which it saturates for a particular pH. That's what you're aiming for because it creates what I'll call "deterministic dosing." That is, a steady value of solutes (dissolved solids) in the effluent solution (the enriched calcium reactor output). So, in your way of saying it, it creates an exact amount and then stops. This way, it's like dosing anything else: Add x to get y. Add 2x to get 2y. In mathematical terms, it's a linear transfer function.

 

The drip method is a pain in the butt because (and almost all of us have seen this happen to us that tried it), the end of the microvalve gets clogged and the dripping slows or stops. Then we don't discover it until our alkalinity crashes. Some people try to get by this by opening the microvalve up and running a steady stream of a less-concentrated effluent. While that can fix the clogging problem, it's subject to variation in pump pressure changes and can be harder to dial in if you have to make changes.

 

For me, the peristaltic pump method uses more equipment, but is far easier to adjust and more reliable.

Thank you.. i can understand now and feel like i know is how dastaco works.

 

 

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The media only dissolves to the point at which it saturates for a particular pH. That's what you're aiming for because it creates what I'll call "deterministic dosing." That is, a steady value of solutes (dissolved solids) in the effluent solution (the enriched calcium reactor output). So, in your way of saying it, it creates an exact amount and then stops. This way, it's like dosing anything else: Add x to get y. Add 2x to get 2y. In mathematical terms, it's a linear transfer function.

 

The drip method is a pain in the butt because (and almost all of us have seen this happen to us that tried it), the end of the microvalve gets clogged and the dripping slows or stops. Then we don't discover it until our alkalinity crashes. Some people try to get by this by opening the microvalve up and running a steady stream of a less-concentrated effluent. While that can fix the clogging problem, it's subject to variation in pump pressure changes and can be harder to dial in if you have to make changes.

 

For me, the peristaltic pump method uses more equipment, but is far easier to adjust and more reliable.

I just think the new neptune dos can work well like your schedule..it rate 190ml/min but on/off setting like you said could be a nice schedule for it.

 

 

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I just think the new neptune dos can work well like your schedule..it rate 190ml/min but on/off setting like you said could be a nice schedule for it.

 

According to the DOS specs on the Neptune website, the DOS has variable, controllable dose rates from 0.1  to 250 ml/minute. It will work.

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According to the DOS specs on the Neptune website, the DOS has variable, controllable dose rates from 0.1 to 250 ml/minute. It will work.

They said it can not use continuous but some neptune guys use it with rate 3:1 (mins) have result really good. Then change out new head pump 30$ every 6-12 months so i think that is a deal when i can get two pump and control, montitor everything from my phone

 

 

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They said it can not use continuous but some neptune guys use it with rate 3:1 (mins) have result really good. Then change out new head pump 30$ every 6-12 months so i think that is a deal when i can get two pump and control, montitor everything from my phone

 

That could certainly be a limitation. I've never taken the device apart but it's fairly compact. That means the motors are substantially smaller than in something like a Masterflex and that they probably run hotter. 

 

I've never had to change out a pump head on any of my Masterflex pumps. BTW, my pumps are controlled by my Apex, so they're controlled and monitored by the Apex.

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