Still_human March 25, 2018 Share March 25, 2018 I'm in the recovery stages of a terrible oodinium or brooklynella infestation/partial wipe-out, leavin just 4 fish left, one of which is a hippo tang who showed first, and worst, but unbelievably is one of the survivors. He just started coming out and not laying down 24/7 anymore, and I've noticed many times, he goes over to where my bicolor angelfish is, turns sideways in the water, and the angelfish starts picking at him! He'll stay there and keep getting cleaned till something hurts him then he'll dart away but come right back. It's not all the time, but I see it many times a day. I think that's awesome! I know butterfly fish will be cleaners to huge fish and turtles in the wild, and I think I've even seen some types of large angels doing it too, but never heard of it happen like this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k March 27, 2018 Share March 27, 2018 how did you get the velvet in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human March 27, 2018 Author Share March 27, 2018 (edited) It was odd. First of all, I was just stupid for not QT-ing the new fish because it came directly out of a 45day QT, already. Strangely though, it also seems to have happened much too fast for it to have been from my tank. As unbelievably fast and deadly as ood & brook are, im like 101% sure it still takes longer than 18-20ish hours between first exposure, till full white spot coverage/irreparable skin&gill damage/at deaths door. Also, although it must still just be a side effect of that anyway, I don't see wthat red skin "burns" are a symptom of such diseases, so that was really throwing me off! Edited March 27, 2018 by Still_human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheresTheReef March 27, 2018 Share March 27, 2018 It was odd. First of all, I was just stupid for not QT-ing the new fish because it came directly out of a 45day QT, already. Strangely though, it also seems to have happened much too fast for it to have been from my tank. As unbelievably fast and deadly as ood & brook are, im like 101% sure it still takes longer than 18-20ish hours between first exposure, till full white spot coverage/irreparable skin&gill damage/at deaths door. Also, although it must still just be a side effect of that anyway, I don't see wthat red skin "burns" are a symptom of such diseases, so that was really throwing me off! Quarantining a fish is not the same as prophylactic treatment. The QT is meant to observe, acclimate and hopefully see syptoms that will likely show up due to shipping/new home stress. Some diseases can live in your tank and not "explode" until a stressor such as a new fish triggers it. You'd be surprised how quickly some diseases can escalate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy March 27, 2018 Share March 27, 2018 Quarantining a fish is not the same as prophylactic treatment. The QT is meant to observe, acclimate and hopefully see syptoms that will likely show up due to shipping/new home stress. Some diseases can live in your tank and not "explode" until a stressor such as a new fish triggers it. You'd be surprised how quickly some diseases can escalate. eric has it right. unfortunately prophylactic treatment really is necessary in most cases. many fish i come across are asymptomatic or symptoms will not be caught by the casual reefing enthusisant. that doesn't mean they don't make excellent carriers, of course, able to nuke a tank. quarantining is great but if able and competent, prophylaxis offers wonderful results and assurances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human March 27, 2018 Author Share March 27, 2018 Yeah, i was under the impression that's what was done during the long QT period. I didn't know there was a different name for QT vs QT w/treatment. I can't remember if it was mentioned or not, so I may have just stupidly made the assumption. Like I briefed about the other day(oh, I guess it's on the other thread about it), NOTHING'S getting by me from now on! I'm gonna murder every single disease and parasite that challenges me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k March 27, 2018 Share March 27, 2018 We use copper at 0.5 for 2 weeks and then another 2 weeks in holding system. No outbreaks since doing this method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human March 27, 2018 Author Share March 27, 2018 (edited) Very cool, thanks for the info! I just got a copper test kit, so I can do that now:) Edited March 27, 2018 by Still_human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpu933k March 27, 2018 Share March 27, 2018 Before jumping into dosing copper, I would suggest reading up on it. There are two different kinds, ionic (cupramine) and chelated (coppersafe, copper power) and different fish may be more sensitive to one or the other. Also you need different copper test kits for measuring ionic vs chelated. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-treatment.193343/ https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/ https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-test-kits.257924/ Also read this thread about a warning regarding coppersafe and the hanna high range copper tester showing promise for measuring both ionic and chelated copper: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/coppersafe-warning-along-with-research-on-hanna-instruments-high-range-copper-checker.368943/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human March 28, 2018 Author Share March 28, 2018 Wow, that's a lotta awesome information, you guys are awesome! Thanks so much! -what's the deal with light/dark affecting oodinium, and/or brooklynella? I've heard it mentioned but didn't see explainations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human March 31, 2018 Author Share March 31, 2018 (edited) SEACHEM COPPER TEST SUCKS!!!!! it's such a ridiculous and confusing test that uses extremely non-specific directions! I was reading the directions and my jaw dropped-fill pipette to line, fill bowl in tray with pipette and repeat(doesn't say how many times till u look at the totally separate visual directions "x2") then add drops...meh, who cares how many, knock urself out! now find the dandruff of a teal unicorn/don't worry, if you can't find a TEAL unicorn, just add the blood of a virgin with exactly 12% Native American DNA, then stir ur stir rod around in the weird magic dust we included while quietly reciting the Greek alphabet backwards, but don't worry how much dust, just stir, knock some off, then stir into the radioactive potion you've know made -for the reference test use the reference water we included, but do the test DIFFERENTLY this time! What??? And on top of THAT, the color chart they include is one of those solid long fading color bars that's impossible to narrow down to a small enough result to give you accurate results! I've been trying for 10minutes straight, and I can narrow it to within .05, which is insane! That's a BIG difference! Enough to make the difference between it working and not, and between safe and fatal!!!!! Even worse, the reference results seem to be off! I don't know if it's them being wrong, me being wrong, or the fact that they have you tests it with more drops than with actual tests?? What a g*d*a*n MESS!!!!! The first test i got for the other kind(API)is just "fill to line, add 10 drops"! Wonderful test! And the results are the separate dots of noticably different shades! I don't know how any other copper tests of the same kind as seachems are, but I can't believe they're as crazy as this! Edited March 31, 2018 by Still_human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human March 31, 2018 Author Share March 31, 2018 We use copper at 0.5 for 2 weeks and then another 2 weeks in holding system. No outbreaks since doing this method. What's your holding system? The first 2weeks must be the QT, right? is the holding system the display tanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k March 31, 2018 Share March 31, 2018 we have a copper system for the first 2 weeks, then a holding system for the next 2. no fish in the display tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human April 1, 2018 Author Share April 1, 2018 we have a copper system for the first 2 weeks, then a holding system for the next 2. no fish in the display tank. Oh ok, so a 2 part QT? Wow, Ive never heard of that before, but very nice! I definitely have the equipment for that, but not the space. Unless I was only doing some small reef tank fish at a time. So is copper the only thing u use to treat during the 4week process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human April 2, 2018 Author Share April 2, 2018 (edited) Would you consider it safe to use pimafix/melafix with copper/cupramine? The fish are doing better, although inmay have to consider the treatment started over as of the other day, but my bicolor has a little fungus patch on his cheek now. I've always just mixed meds in the past if necessary, and don't recall ever having any issues, although it's always possible that something I've done randomly inhibited and slowed down some other medication/treatment in the past because of it. this brook/ood problem is particularly insane though, so I want to make sure I don't somehow interrupt or reduce the effectiveness of its current treatment. The "fixes" won't do anything like that to the copper, will it? Edited April 2, 2018 by Still_human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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