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Triton Method General Question and Combining Red Sea's Coral Nutrition Program


cynthia

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Good day.  I wanted to reach out to the club and specifically those of you utilizing the Triton method and ask some questions.  Along with a Question about combining the Red Sea Coral Nutrition program.

 

First question  I'm having a heck of a time trying to keep my KH balanced with the dosing of the Triton Basic Elements dosing system.  I try and get my calcium up and when I dose all the elements (1, 2, 3 a & 3 B) my KH shoots up.  I have gotten my KH down to 10.73 but need to get it back down to 8 to begin dosing again all the elements.  Which of the elements contains the alkalinity?  I have tried reading those bottles and their website but can not for the life of me figure it out.  

 

The second question I have has anyone combined the Red Sea Coral Nutrition program with the Triton method?  Have you had success?  Do you only dose the Red Sea Reef Energy A & B?  Should I not be doing that.

Sorry if I sound amatuerish but am when it comes to the Triton Method.  I want to do it successfully.  I even went as far as purchasing and installing the Triton 44 sump by Trigger Systems as it has the bigger refugium section.  LOVE IT!

 

Any help would be appreciated to steer me in the correct direction.

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KH is alkalinity I think. I failed chemistry class so please don’t listen to me. dKH is just the measurement of alk I think lol. Calling Tom! Alk needs dripped in if you are keeping SPS. It makes me cringe when people have alk spikes

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I have a 220 with the triton44 sump. I was dosing 8 ml per day. My calcium was maintaining between 415 to 430. My alkalinity shot up. I stopped dosing. I just need to know which part of the Triton basic elements has the alkalinity and which part has the calcium so I can stop dosing the part with the alkalinity

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Can I ask why the need to keep calcium so high?

what's the alk and cal of the incoming water? 

can't you test those supplements that Triton sends you for alkalinity and figure out which contains it?

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I think you are supposed to adjust your Alk to be at 8dkh and then start dosing all 4 in equal amounts in quantities that will keep your Alk at 8dkh.

 

I haven't seen it specified which of the 4 has the carbonate in it, but it is supposed to be easy to just dose all 4 equally and trust that their supplements are balanced.

 

They are apparently pretty concentrated so maybe you just dosed too much?

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I think you are supposed to adjust your Alk to be at 8dkh and then start dosing all 4 in equal amounts in quantities that will keep your Alk at 8dkh.

 

I haven't seen it specified which of the 4 has the carbonate in it, but it is supposed to be easy to just dose all 4 equally and trust that their supplements are balanced.

 

They are apparently pretty concentrated so maybe you just dosed too much?

Depends on which one you are doing if you are dosing core 7 they recommend 2ml of part 1 for every 26g of volume then 1ml of the other three parts

 

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Also your fuge might be a little small I would consider mixing parts 3a and 3b into a single container and dosing it as 1

 

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A pdf on the "Base Elements" from Triton's page here

 

Number 1 = Alkalinity + Traces

Number 2 = Calcium + Traces

Number 3A = Magnesium + Traces

Number 3B = Magnesium + Traces

 

I don't know the specifics of Triton's line, but I'll observe that the numbering (perhaps coincidentally) aligns with the numbering for old-fashioned two part, where there were two optional formulas for the magensium supplement (one using more magnesium sulfate than the other). It also might be that one is magnesium chloride (a kind of ice melt) and the other is magnesium sulfate (Epsom salt)

 

Do the instructions for 3a and 3b recommend dosing both? If so, then it's likely that one is magnesium chloride and the other sulfate.

 

So, to answer your original question: Number 1 has the alkalinity (and some trace elements).

 

Your calcium level is fine. A bit higher than normal, but not terribly so. Balance calcium for 8 dKH alkalinity is 417. For 10 dKH, it's 432. There's really no need to run it at 450, but I do know that there are a number of salts out there that will push it up like that. 

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Depends on which one you are doing if you are dosing core 7 they recommend 2ml of part 1 for every 26g of volume then 1ml of the other three parts

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

I'm confused about how this stuff is supposed to work then if they're simply prescribing how many ml per gallon to add.  Dosing should be based on consumption, not volume, as each tank will use a different amount.

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Thanks Tom! That’s exactly what I needed. I was dosing them equally and that when the alkalinity shot up. When I watched the BRS video they said the same thing happened with them but did not say how they fixed it. I have the base elements; which you cannot combine 3 a & 3 b

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I'm confused about how this stuff is supposed to work then if they're simply prescribing how many ml per gallon to add.  Dosing should be based on consumption, not volume, as each tank will use a different amount.

 

From Triton's PDF (linked to in my last post):

 

"TRITON Base Elements must first be diluted with ultrapure 000 TDS RODI water. They should be mixed to make up 4 x 10L solutions. See mixing instrutions below. Intial dose is 10ml per 100l aquarium volume of each bottle. Dosage should be the same for each of the solutions, 1, 2, 3a and 3b. After a day carbonate hardness should be measured, the target should be 8dKH. If the carbonate hardness falls (as of 8dKH to 7 dKH), the dosage should be increased. If the carbonate hardness increases (e.g. 8dKH on 9dKH), then the dosage should be reduced."

 

The way that reads is that they have all parts calibrated in a manner proportional to alkalinity consumption. Unfortunately, magnesium consumption does not fit the proportional model exactly and can vary from tank to tank depending upon the species homed in that tank. Magnesium ions can substitute for calcium ions in coral skeletal structures anywhere from 1 to 5 percent of the time. This can cause a slight imbalance in both calcium and magnesium over time, so periodic testing and adjustments of both of these may be needed. 

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I'm confused about how this stuff is supposed to work then if they're simply prescribing how many ml per gallon to add. Dosing should be based on consumption, not volume, as each tank will use a different amount.

They suggest that as a starting baseline and then you fine tune it with the icp testing

 

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That is correct Molcott.  I did start with the baseline.  For some reason the Alkalinity shot up while the calcium maintained the correct parameters.  BRS had the same thing happen.  I do the Triton testing once a month.  While pretty much is everything in line.  I do not see that alkalinity testing is part of the testing.  I do dilute each element with R/O water and have that stored in seal tight containers until I use them.

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That is correct Molcott.  I did start with the baseline.  For some reason the Alkalinity shot up while the calcium maintained the correct parameters.  BRS had the same thing happen.  I do the Triton testing once a month.  While pretty much is everything in line.  I do not see that alkalinity testing is part of the testing.  I do dilute each element with R/O water and have that stored in seal tight containers until I use them.

 

Hi Cynthia. The ratio of calcium and alkalinity is an interesting thing when you look at them. Let's look at a common scenario:

 

Let's say that, one day, you break out your Salifert test kits and measure calcium at 420 ppm and, in a second test, measure alkalinity at 8 dKH. Then, a few days later, you run the tests again and now measure calcium at 420 ppm, but all of a sudden, your alkalinity has "shot up" to nearly 10 dKH. 

 

Here's what may be at the heart of the issue: Calcium is found in seawater at comparatively higher concentrations than alkalinity. Calcium is generally present in the 400-450 ppm range while alkalinity is about a third of that at 150 ppm or so. (150 ppm would work out to 8.4 dKH when talking about carbonate alkalinity.) (Nominally, 20 ppm of calcium is consumed for every 2.8 dKH of alkalinity.) Furthermore, alkalinity test kits have higher effective (and repeatable) resolution than many calcium test kits. 

 

For example, the Salifert test kit tables provide a chart with 10 ppm resolution for every 0.2 ml of reagent used. The syringe that we're given has markings every 0.1 ml so you're probably looking at a +/- 5 ppm error for any given calcium measurement at best. (I've found that it's difficult to get this resolution because drop-size is often much larger than 0.1 ml, thereby leading to a coarser measurement.) Their alkalinity test kit, meanwhile has KH values in roughly 0.33 dKH increments, or roughly +/- 2.5 ppm CaCO3 equivalents. So, it's very possible that, in reality, the water which tested out at 420 both times has drifted from 415 to 425, while alkalinity had drifted up (in perfectly  normal) from 8.3 to 9.7 while measuring 8 on the first day and 10 later on.

 

Triton does not test alkalinity for the simple reason that alkalinity isn't measured by the ICP-OES method. It would have to be measured by some other method (titration being the most common).

 

The ICP-OES method relies on modeling to estimate measures of composite ions like nitrate and phosphate. ICP-OES energizes a sample, breaking it down to its constituent elements, and measures the optical spectrum emitted by those elements. (This is how scientists have estimated the composition of the surface of the sun, for example.) Software then analyzes the complex emission spectra to determine how much of each ion is present in the sample. Thus, ICP-OES is able to directly measure levels of single ions like phosphorus and nitrogen. However, composite ions like nitrate and phosphate are ripped apart in the testing process, yielding nitrogen and phosphorus ions. To get the measurements that you see in your report, software makes certain assumptions as to how much of the nitrogen came from nitrate in the sample and how much of the phosphorus started out as phosphate (vice some other organometallic complex, for example). That's the modeling part and my guess is that these models are somewhat proprietary for the various testing companies. But, models are a compromise. If our water sample does not correspond to their model, then our reports may be a somewhat distorted representation of reality. 

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I'll stick with water changes and 2 part alongside testing. It's been working well for the past 25 years. 

What did Julian tell you at the meeting?

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So what about consumption? If your tank is not jacked up with lots of corals, do you need to dose that much?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Have you tried to not dose for 3 days, then keep testing everything in 3 day. Then you can know how much element your tank consume. Then after that you can know how much you need to dose each bottle..some time tank consume not balance like i know that why people have different way to dose..if they dose equal, i will ask manufacturers why they dont keep everything in one bottle( i know kh, cal will be caco3 which build up and clog).:)

Balling mean u keep testing and balance your dose. Triton said dose exact what tank need.

 

 

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Edited by rvu1710
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