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Iv been annoyed for awhile at how my bigger goldflake doesn't look like a standard goldflake, especially missing the highlighted golden flecks on the body, which is my favorite part. I was just comparing mine with flagfins again, as I have before, always concluding it must just be a weird goldflake with some seemingly mixed features, and saw a few pictures of foldflake/flagfin hybrids, and surprised at how similar they look.

Does anyone have any familiarity with the hybrids, or familiar enough with both species that they could differentiate oddball individuals?

 

(I'll edit&add pictures tomorrow-its lights out time for them)

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There he is-

The tail is pretty much yellow instead of having black, or being heavily shaded(goldflakes have black, flagfins have bright yellow)

The scales are much closer to the solid pattern of flagfins, instead of having the larger gold flecks all over like goldflakes.

I've seen a picture or 2 of goldflakes with similarly "dull" scales, but never a goldflake without a solid black tail. But the hybrids Iv seen look very much like mine.

 

Hybrid or not, I'm very disappointed about the lack of the bright gold flecks, that's why I like the goldflakes, and why I spent so much money! And his black is super under developed. He's still my little buddy, but....:(

 

I somehow seem to completely randomly get unusual colored fish,(or maybe turn them that way if possible cause they usually don't seem to start out that way), which is usually cool(asfur angel with the top of the yellow fading the whole top fin orange, a bicolor angel with orange rear finnage, a yellow belly hippo tang who's entire body got a yellow tinge, a maskless moorish idol, maroon masked emperor angel and a couple others), but I guess now I'm seeing the other end of the spectrum:(

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  • 2 weeks later...

No one??? No one is even pretty familiar with just goldflakes OR flagfins? :(

Edited by Still_human
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Yeah, thats a worry I can't help shaking, but there's a couple reasons I'm like 99% sure it's not a FULL flagfin-well, I guess kinda the same-I've looked at tons of flagfin pics...tons....and I've never seen a single one with black on its dorsal fin, and although it's yellow now, the tail was black when I got it, and those are both strictly goldflake features. That's why im thinking it has to be a hybrid...maybe just with more flagfin:/

I'm waiting to hear back from copps though, who seems to have more than enough knowledge on the subject to help. ....but I really hope I don't have to confront the person I ordered it from, that isn't likely to have an ideal outcome.....although I guess potentially I could end up with a free flagfin too, so who knows, roll of the dice, I guess!

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Oh yeah, and it only shows up at some angles in some lighting, but it also has the glowing blue trim on the fins and tail, which is another thing that seems to be strictly goldflake.

(Phew, i love these moments when I'm very confident that it IS a goldflake, or hybrid! lol)

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Looks like an unusual color morph of the flagfin. could be a regional difference in these fish, similar to the regional differences that give coral beauty angels different colors.

Doesn't look like a Goldflake at all, nor a hybrid.

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U don't think so? The only thing that doesn't look goldflakey is the lack of sweet flecks on the side. Other than those it looks pretty much just like goldflakes...except for the tail thats black, faded out. And actually, it looks exactly like the goldflake/flagfin hybrids I've seen. Im pretty sure it wouldn't be just a regenamñ thing tho, cause then there'd still be other flagfins around with the black dorsal and tail, even if they weren't as common as the standard look from the standard places. Oh, and blue trim! And the color morph thing, while really cool, would be super crazy if it just so happened to have 3 parts, all of which are goldflake thingys.

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Yeah, but only a couple times. I am familiar with flagfins though. I'm absolutely going to admit to being bias, and wanting it to be a goldflake or hybrid instead of just a flagfin, but to be honest, at this point I really don't think there's too much chance it's a plain flagfin after seeing everything I've been seeing. It really looks exactly like a goldflake, just without the bright gold spots, but the goldflake spots are more varied than almost anything else on an angelfish. my guy does have more of a flagfin base look, although not the normal flagfin base, which is the only thing that looks flagfin to me at all, but on the other hand, I've also seen goldflakes with very similar a base. Like I said, his tail is only has a slight black shade at the moment, but like his anal and dorsal fins, it was jet black when i got him, which along with a couple more features, are things that flagfins just don't seem to get. Most telling to me is that he looks exactly like hybrids Iv seen. I'm definitely still interested in hearing people's thoughts(ESPECIALLY if your thoughts are pro-goldflake lol), but it's going to take a lot for me to discount all that I'm seeing.

 

*Here's some pics below that i just pulled. The first group will be of angels that are solid 100% goldflakes, that point out that any of mine's unusual features are also found on some goldflakes, and the 2nd pics are of hybrid pics, pointing out how much he looks just like a hybrid.

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These are the straight goldflakes. They have fairly similar bases to mine, but also showing how different goldflakes patterns get. And I kinda think the 2nd one is even further from a standard goldflake than mine is.

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My apologies for the tardy reply, but the good news is you do not have a flagfin angel... you at the very least have a flagfin/ goldflake hybrid but I'd say there's a greater than 98% chance your fish is a full goldflake... and 100% not a full flagfin... the biggest give away is the black in the dorsal fin of your fish... flagfins lose their false eye spot when VERY small... in the one inch range... you'll almost never see a juvenile flagfin in the trade sold that still has the false eye spot... your fish showing the black again in the dorsal fin is a dead giveaway that it has goldflake blood...

 

Now, in regards to goldflake/ flagfin hybrids, they do exist. I have one of the few that can be said is a 100% hybrid, as it was bred in captivity by Wen Peng Su at Bali Aquarich... I'll show a pic I just took tonight below... I travel to Hawaii for work quite a bit, and when I'm there I have a very good friend that owned a wholesaler on Oahu, and also owns the retail company Pacific Island Aquatics. While they are now in Oregon, they would bring in dozens of goldflakes a week from the freighter that flew in from Christmas Island... along with HUNDREDS of flame angels at a time, a few black tangs, and many other cool fish... after seeing hundreds of these through the years there this is why many people suspect hybridization between the two species... while I think it happens, it is much more rare than people would believe for these reasons...

 

1. Goldflake angels have crazy variation... not even regional variation (which does exist in the species)... but even from the same location... my buddy took this photo from one of the shipments showing two different goldflakes... 

nvdqiVj.jpg

 

2. As juveniles both species are very similar... the species diverge as they grow... there are ways to tell apart juveniles of each species but it's not nearly as apparent as with adults. This is common with many closely related angelfish species... as adults you can tell from across the room but as juveniles many species look similar. So, a fish like yours in the 3" range often causes confusion and thoughts of hybridization... because many people are just basing their opinion on whether the fish is gold or yellow... juvenile goldfflakes are all yellow! Another example is in regals angels... Indian Ocean specimens have a yellow belly at adulthood... Pacific specimens have a blue belly... but when small they all have yellow bellies...

 

3. Yet another thing that can result in misidentification is the tendency for captive fish to delay their transition into adulthood... this happens with many angelfish... much of it is hormone related... but can be many things... all brought on by captivity... so you'll often see even larger goldflakes in captivity hanging onto their juvenile coloration longer...

 

In addition to the dorsal fin I mentioned above on your fish, another subtle giveaway is the anal fin edged in blue... you can see it in your third pic... you don't see that in flagfins... also on the anal fin you can see the black filling in... you can also see the flecking on the body of your fish, which will get more pronounced with age. Grow your fish out and enjoy it... 

 

Here's a shot of my flagfin/ goldflake hybrid bred by Bali Aquarich... the black flecks and shading in the dorsal get washed out by the flash... but you can see in the anal fin the black is intermediate between the two species and there is even a little of the blue edging on the anal fin.

DZGfmuf.jpg

 

Again enjoy your fish... things like this make this hobby exciting... and flagfins are also beautiful... I collected my own pair in Guam last year while I was there... unfortunately only one made it back but it lives in my 1300 gallon now and feeds from my fingers... :)

 

Copps

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These are goldflake/flagfins, and all 3 look just like mine....DID look just like mine for the 2nd one, and unless I'm just overlooking key features, currently looks just like the other 2 except their dorsal spots just haven't fully disappeared yet, but as soon as they finish, will look completely like mine.

 

 

Am I just totally not noticing certain features? Someone said before about the face not looking goldflake, but goldflake faces look just like flagfin faces most of the time. Many flagfins don't have the forehead bump that mine and most goldflakes have, but I just don't see much difference between the two's faces. Am I missing important stuff?????

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Oh awesome!!!!! Lol sorry, you posted that in between me posting some pictures, so don't think I was posting in response to your post!!! That's awesome news! So do you think mine will get more of the bright "goldflakes"? I've been worried because I see lots of smaller and even baby goldflakes that already have the bright spots

 

that mean the pictures that I posted of apparent hybrids, are not necessarily hybrids then, right?

Edited by Still_human
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No worries... I would worry about things that are under your control... like keeping your GF healthy, fat and happy... then let his color fall where it will. :)

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Yeah, definitely, no matter what he is, he's still my little guy(or girl), but if he's not gonna get those spots, I might just have to set up another tank! Lol

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Amazing answer. When it comes to Angelfish (and many other things), we're very lucky to have John Coppolino as a resource. :thumbsup:

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I know, right??? He really blew my mind right there! I knew he was well-informed on the topic because he told me that he would get back to me when he had time to write a full and very long response, but even so, I wasn't expecting that much useful information both about what I was specifically inquiring about, and also related subject info. Lol now I just hafta make sure I don't bother him too much!

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