Dr.tims fishless cycles

[Kreden]

So I took a gamble, why not? I'm trying out dr.tims one and only including his ammonium chloride for the fishless cycle. Day two still have right in between 1.2-2ppm ammonia, used a bottle and half on a 150. I'm curious to see if anyone's done this and share your feed back! I used dry rock. Here a schedule that I am following and will post results as they come.

 

 

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[Origami]

That's a fairly common way of cycling, actually. In this example, though, you're using branded products. There's nothing really new about using ammonia in the form of ammonium chloride (or ammonium hydroxide) to feed and encourage bacteria growth as part of cycling a tank. Other ways that don't rely on chemicals include ghost feeding, putting a raw shrimp or some other source of organics into a tank, peeing in the tank, etc. The other part of this equation is the introduction of bacteria. In this example, it's using Dr. Tim's bacteria starter, but other sources include products from other manufacturers, bacteria that arrive from the air, from your hands and other surfaces (including stuff living on live rock and sand), etc.

 

One thing to note, though. These products, to the best of my knowledge, jumpstart the nitrogen cycling process by encouraging the growth of aerobic bacteria which are responsible for decaying organic material into ammonia and for converting ammonia to nitrite and then nitrate. They do little to jumpstart the anaerobic process of bacteria converting nitrate to nitrogen gas. (I note with a smile that Dr. Tim's process shown above says nothing at all about the aquarist measuring nitrate. He just focuses on ammonia and nitrite. There's a reason for this.)

 

So, will it work? Yes. Is there anything really special about it? I don't think so. Can I do the same in other ways? Yes. Aquarists have been cycling tanks for decades in other, sometimes quite interesting and, seemingly, odd ways.

[WishNewFish]

Since you raised the point of anerobic bacteria converting Nitrate to Nitrogen gas.

Is this nitrogen generating anerobic bacteria present in all fully cycled tanks or only in tanks with deep sand bend/large rock work tanks?

That's a fairly common way of cycling, actually. In this example, though, you're using branded products. There's nothing really new about using ammonia in the form of ammonium chloride (or ammonium hydroxide) to feed and encourage bacteria growth as part of cycling a tank. Other ways that don't rely on chemicals include ghost feeding, putting a raw shrimp or some other source of organics into a tank, peeing in the tank, etc. The other part of this equation is the introduction of bacteria. In this example, it's using Dr. Tim's bacteria starter, but other sources include products from other manufacturers, bacteria that arrive from the air, from your hands and other surfaces (including stuff living on live rock and sand), etc.

 

One thing to note, though. These products, to the best of my knowledge, jumpstart the nitrogen cycling process by encouraging the growth of aerobic bacteria which are responsible for decaying organic material into ammonia and for converting ammonia to nitrite and then nitrate. They do little to jumpstart the anaerobic process of bacteria converting nitrate to nitrogen gas. (I note with a smile that Dr. Tim's process shown above says nothing at all about the aquarist measuring nitrate. He just focuses on ammonia and nitrite. There's a reason for this.)

 

So, will it work? Yes. Is there anything really special about it? I don't think so. Can I do the same in other ways? Yes. Aquarists have been cycling tanks for decades in other, sometimes quite interesting and, seemingly, odd ways.

[cpu933k]

I think what Dr. Tims was trying to sell was how fast you could cycle using his product. In my case, when starting with dry rock, dry sand, following his directions, it still took me like 12 weeks to cycle.

[Origami]

Since you raised the point of anerobic bacteria converting Nitrate to Nitrogen gas.

Is this nitrogen generating anerobic bacteria present in all fully cycled tanks or only in tanks with deep sand bend/large rock work tanks?

Tanks that have anaerobic areas (in the pores of rocks, in areas below about an inch or two of sand, mud, etc will have areas where anaerobic bacteria can develop. However, remember that nitrates can even be taken up by plants - thus you can use algal filters to reduce nitrates.

 

I think what Dr. Tims was trying to sell was how fast you could cycle using his product. In my case, when starting with dry rock, dry sand, following his directions, it still took me like 12 weeks to cycle.

Long time. It seems that it should have been quicker. 

 

What Dr. Tim is offering is a commercialized version/system of an old, well-known technique to nitrogen cycling a tank. That's not to say it's snake-oil. It's not. It's just nothing terribly special. In fact, there are other bacteria-in-a-bottle (BIB) products out there to jumpstart cycling. (API Quick Start, IO Bio-Spira, Brightwell MicroBacter, Seachem Stability, etc.) Where it might be a little different is it prescribes the use of two products (both under his brand) - an ammonia product and a BIB product - and gives you a protocol to grow bacteria.

 

In actuality, a lot of the protocol is similar to what's been around for decades: Manage ammonia levels to keep them below 2 ppm so you don't kill off any higher life forms and retard growth of the developing filter; and monitor ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate to watch the peaks come and go.

 

You can also jumpstart cycling by using live rock and live sand as these already have an established bacterial population on/in their surfaces.

[Kreden]

https://youtu.be/kPxExG-FbvI

 

 

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[WishNewFish]

wow, it still took 12 weeks even after you used Dr. Tims? 

Glad I took live rock from Tom "kyle&amy" - I didn't see any ammonia or nitrite reading after 3 days.

Added food for couple of more days and started adding fish a week later.

[Kreden]

No it's a 8 day cycle

 

 

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[bk_market]

I got bad result using Dr Tims. He replied to me immediately when I need help placing an order. When I have problem took a few days between to get a reply. For a product that suppose to cycle your tank within 7 days, I expect much faster response from customer service. Later on he said something along the line of you are lucky that your cycle last 1 month with my Dr tims instead of 3 months of regular cycle and blame it on my live sand with no further explaination. I think my tank just went through regular cycle instead.

 

They were so distracted with everything that they reply to my order email asking me where do I purchase the item from. I was so angry but never get around to post a review for my experience. 

Edited September 12, 2017 by bk_market

[Kreden]

The main thing that they said was that you have to make sure the ammonia stays at 2ppm and not more so I couldn't say unless u checked every day. I'm on day two checked every day it's been consistent. I'm following every single instruction they put out to really test if this stuff works and yes u can get ammonium nitrate anywhere I got it through them because it was free with the bottle of one and only. But it gives you a specific dosage to do to obtain what they say works with there product so I will keep it updated as I get to 8 days

 

 

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[zygote2k]

Here's what everyone needs to understand about cycling the tank- The nitrogen cycle is only one part of it. The algal cycle is the other part of it.

Most of you who use bacteria in a bottle and state your tank was cycled in a short period of time will ultimately have issues with diatoms, cyano, and hair algae because you didn't or don't have the patience to do it correctly. Many of you will have these issues and give up completely.

Nothing good ever happens fast in a reef tank and there's never been any product that can completely cycle a tank in less than 3 months. Anything claiming that it can do that is only telling a half truth.

 

I always recommend that you cycle a tank in 90-120 days for the best possible results.

We even had a WAMAS speaker a while ago who spoke about the European method which was a 4-6 month cycle.

[YHSublime]

Here's what everyone needs to understand about cycling the tank- The nitrogen cycle is only one part of it. The algal cycle is the other part of it.

Most of you who use bacteria in a bottle and state your tank was cycled in a short period of time will ultimately have issues with diatoms, cyano, and hair algae because you didn't or don't have the patience to do it correctly. Many of you will have these issues and give up completely.

Nothing good ever happens fast in a reef tank and there's never been any product that can completely cycle a tank in less than 3 months. Anything claiming that it can do that is only telling a half truth.

 

I always recommend that you cycle a tank in 90-120 days for the best possible results.

We even had a WAMAS speaker a while ago who spoke about the European method which was a 4-6 month cycle.

But I wanted my tank cycled yesterday!!!!

 

 

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[treesprite]

Are you basing this on the absence of using fully established liverock that didn't just come from a store bin and isn't full of dead stuff?

[KingOfAll_Tyrants]

I also used this for my nitrogen cycle of my very new (now 1 month old) tank.  I used it because I wanted to bacteria dose to start the nitrogen cycle, and this product was allegedly the best of them.  ("best" here is, probably, at most a small difference.  He claims this product has a better, proprietary balance of bacteria IIRC).  

 

It worked fine; HOWEVER I started the tank with a well seeded marinepure block (theoretically equivalent to a lot of live rock) to get it started*, and it the nitrogen cycle went very quickly (or, alternately, the marinepure already had more than sufficient baceteria to cycle the ammonia I added).  

 

Zygote2k, thanks for highlighting the need for an "algae", or microfauna cycle, which I didn't know specfically of prior, even though I have a sense of it from freshwater many years ago.  :(  I do have a diatom bloom, which is good.  At the same time, I've added two fish, some snails, and some macroalgae.  :( :(   I suppose all I can do is to resist the temptation to add much more livestock, and then only add them gradually.   (this makes me wonder if I should add "real" live rock or wait a few months)

 

* and as was posted in my build thread, the sand or ceramic "rocks" I have may not have been colonized with bacteria because there are so many in the marinepure.  In the next week or so I want to test this.