Red Sea 425XL Lighting – Radion XR30 Pro Gen 4 vs? – Help me Decide

[gws3]

My wife wanted me to put a tank in our living room so we have decided on a Red Sea Reefer 425XL. The tank measures 47” long by 22.6” wide and 22” deep. We selected the gloss white stand.

 

I have been trying to select lighting for it and this is where I have been having a tough time. It will be a SPS dominant tank with minimalistic rock work.

 

For this tank I wanted to select a light that is primarily LED. Most of my tanks are lit by 250w Radium MH with reefbrite XHO blue strips for supplementation. On my 300DD I use 250/400w Radiums, a reefbrite XHO blue strip and a few ATI blue plus T5s. On my newer frag tanks I am using T5s for the primary lighting and reefbrite XHO blue strips for supplementation.

 

I think LEDs will eventually replace MHs and T5s, so for this tank I wanted the primary light to be from LEDs so that I could familiarize myself with them and learn how to best grow SPS under them, so that I can evaluate if I want to eventually replace my other lights with LEDs and have some experience with them already.

 

So my original plan was to use two Radion XR30 Pro Gen 4s. As I was researching options I read that a lot of people growing SPS are having more success when combining T5 with LED than LED alone. I then found a LED/T5 hybrid fixture by Giesemann coming out which would match the tank and stand beautifully called Genesis. It uses the same LED array as the Vervve, which appealed to me as they utilize 4 different Cree blue leds and the output is on par with Gen 4 Radion. But they have a wider blue spectrum than the Radions.

 

I was set on this fixture until I started getting more details on it. It uses passive cooling so the LED arrays aren’t fully powered like on the Vervve. Only 50W per array for a total of 150W from the LEDs. It has 4 39W T5s. However, these are not actively cooled as well. So they will likely have reduced output faster from the Heat. So that’s a total of 306 watts which doesn’t seem like a lot of output for a 4’ x 2’ SPS tank. I have also got feedback from someone who saw this fixture at a show and thought the output was weak.

 

So I am back to considering Radion WR30 Gen 4 Pros. Looking for feedback from anyone that has them running over a SPS dominated tank. Or do you have any other fixtures to recommend?

 

Here is the Red Sea 425XL in white and the Genesis fixture I was considering for reference:

 

 

[sethsolomon]

Just a note, you should not need the pro's on a 22" deep tank.  those are for 24"+ deep tanks.   I would totally do a white floating canopy for that tank.  That way you can do radeons in combination with some t5 retros.  

[YHSublime]

Just a note, you should not need the pro's on a 22" deep tank.  those are for 24"+ deep tanks.   I would totally do a white floating canopy for that tank.  That way you can do radeons in combination with some t5 retros.  

 

I was thinking about that as well (canopy) but that's such a clean tank, I can see why he's looking for an AIO lighting solution. That's my life, trying to find the balance between form and function.

[dpassar12]

I grow out a few of your frags I picked up last year under Gen 2 radions in my SPS dominated display tank.  24 inches deep. lights run at 65%. I run 8x T247 Bs over two 8x2x1 frag tanks running 62% blue and 22% white and 4 BBoxes over another 8x2x1 frag and 1 BBox over a 3x2x1 Nem frag tank  approx 75% blue and 50% white and 1 BBox over a 100 Gal rubbermaid fuge with 10 mangroves, Xenia and Chaeto. All of my lights are 17-18 inches off the water. Everything grows fine under LEDs. For PAR I like 300-350 max. For finer tuning of PAR levels I will adjust racks/positions if needed. 

I have not had a coral that does not thrive under any of my lights including a few I got from you. In my experience with LEDS anything over 350 will bleach it. That's just me, others may have different opinions and that's fine I don't want to get into an argument with anyone over PAR and growth. All that being said you will never turn any of these lights up to 100% so all of your choices will work with a SPS dominated tank. I have tested MH and T5s over the past year or so and just don't like the color and heat(MH) and having to change bulbs every year.. 

So what would I do, First my wife would never, ever, say she wanted a tank anywhere in my house outside of my fish room in the basement. You have hit the wife lottery, congrats to you. Money does not appear to be an issue. If you want to use LEDs, this is the tank to do it on IMO, beautiful tank. I like the choice of high gloss white. I would go with the Radions and build a sleek glossy white acrylic thin frame around the radions and mount them inside to hide the light.. Not a canopy to much of a pain, like a hanging frame setup but covered by a 2-3 inch panel of white acrylic to match the tank.

If you want to make a trip to Leesburg and see the different lights and mess with the colors etc just PM me. Good luck and show pics when everything is done. Because someone will ask, my fav lights are the T247's I have been replacing my lights with these over the past year and just trying to standardize on a single light that works, grows and is reasonably priced because I have 19 lights so $ and energy becomes and issue on a big system. 

 

[mpitzer]

I am in the same boat as you looking for a light to hang over my new 525xl.  I just saw the AquaticLife T5HO Hybrid that debuted at MACNA 2017 and is scheduled to start selling in December.  It a BYO-LED setup that has mounting fixtures in the middle for the Radions or the Kessil LEDs and then T5HO on the sides with reflectors to keep light bleed at bay.  Really think I want it but my tank is 59" wide and the light only goes up to 48"....don't know if 5 inches on either side of the tank would matter but seems like a 48" would be perfect for you.

 

"The T5HO fixture comes in 24, 36, and 48" lengths and they each hold up to four lamps.  But the most intriguing part of the T5HO Hybrid fixture is that they come with several types of universal mountin brackets designed to allow the user to easily mount a radion, prime, hydro, kessil, and other LED fixtures between the T5 lamps."

 

Sounds pretty awesome to me.

[gws3]

Thanks for all the input, it is appreciated.

 

Just a note, you should not need the pro's on a 22" deep tank.  those are for 24"+ deep tanks.   I would totally do a white floating canopy for that tank.  That way you can do radeons in combination with some t5 retros.  

 

I will take a look at the difference.  I may opt for the pros to get the extra blues and to be able to use them for a wider variety of tanks down the line.

 

So my hesitation with a canopy is my living room is two stories. So I won't be hanging cables from the ceiling. The lighting either needs to mount to the wall with some l-brackets or to the tank edge with something like the RMS mounts.  I have some nice looking shelf l-brackets picked out for the Giesemann fixture if I went with that choice.

 

I was thinking about that as well (canopy) but that's such a clean tank, I can see why he's looking for an AIO lighting solution. That's my life, trying to find the balance between form and function.

 

Yeah it's not too easy.  The white Genesis would be a perfect look IMO.  I would prefer to keep it as open as possible due to the high ceiling.

 

I grow out a few of your frags I picked up last year under Gen 2 radions in my SPS dominated display tank.  24 inches deep. lights run at 65%. I run 8x T247 Bs over two 8x2x1 frag tanks running 62% blue and 22% white and 4 BBoxes over another 8x2x1 frag and 1 BBox over a 3x2x1 Nem frag tank  approx 75% blue and 50% white and 1 BBox over a 100 Gal rubbermaid fuge with 10 mangroves, Xenia and Chaeto. All of my lights are 17-18 inches off the water. Everything grows fine under LEDs. For PAR I like 300-350 max. For finer tuning of PAR levels I will adjust racks/positions if needed. 

I have not had a coral that does not thrive under any of my lights including a few I got from you. In my experience with LEDS anything over 350 will bleach it. That's just me, others may have different opinions and that's fine I don't want to get into an argument with anyone over PAR and growth. All that being said you will never turn any of these lights up to 100% so all of your choices will work with a SPS dominated tank. I have tested MH and T5s over the past year or so and just don't like the color and heat(MH) and having to change bulbs every year.. 

So what would I do, First my wife would never, ever, say she wanted a tank anywhere in my house outside of my fish room in the basement. You have hit the wife lottery, congrats to you. Money does not appear to be an issue. If you want to use LEDs, this is the tank to do it on IMO, beautiful tank. I like the choice of high gloss white. I would go with the Radions and build a sleek glossy white acrylic thin frame around the radions and mount them inside to hide the light.. Not a canopy to much of a pain, like a hanging frame setup but covered by a 2-3 inch panel of white acrylic to match the tank.

If you want to make a trip to Leesburg and see the different lights and mess with the colors etc just PM me. Good luck and show pics when everything is done. Because someone will ask, my fav lights are the T247's I have been replacing my lights with these over the past year and just trying to standardize on a single light that works, grows and is reasonably priced because I have 19 lights so $ and energy becomes and issue on a big system. 

 

 

I agree with you SPS do not need par much over 300.  I think the only caveat is higher nutrient tanks can get some crazy coloration by blasting them with higher PAR.  Kind of like how they get crazy colors out of Maricultures.  Before ther are shipped they are grown in the ocean much higher par than where they occur naturally.

 

Do you think the Giesemann with only 150W LED over a 2' x 4' area would be enough par?

 

Yes, the wife is supportive of my addiction!  She is a keeper.  It helps that I sell frags to help offset the amount of money I pump into this hobby.

 

I don't mind spending the money on this system to make it top end because it's not a huge tank and it's the only one going in a finished area of my house.

 

If I am down you way I may hit you up to check out the different LED options.

 

I am in the same boat as you looking for a light to hang over my new 525xl.  I just saw the AquaticLife T5HO Hybrid that debuted at MACNA 2017 and is scheduled to start selling in December.  It a BYO-LED setup that has mounting fixtures in the middle for the Radions or the Kessil LEDs and then T5HO on the sides with reflectors to keep light bleed at bay.  Really think I want it but my tank is 59" wide and the light only goes up to 48"....don't know if 5 inches on either side of the tank would matter but seems like a 48" would be perfect for you.

 

"The T5HO fixture comes in 24, 36, and 48" lengths and they each hold up to four lamps.  But the most intriguing part of the T5HO Hybrid fixture is that they come with several types of universal mountin brackets designed to allow the user to easily mount a radion, prime, hydro, kessil, and other LED fixtures between the T5 lamps."

 

Sounds pretty awesome to me.

 

Someone else mentioned the Aquatic Life fixture as well to me.  It has all the functionality but personally I think it is too utilitarian looking.  I am shooting for a very clean, polished modern looking set up.

[pizzaguy]

Ati led powermodule. Im loving mine right now and getting some pretty amazing growth and color. Sps dominant 400 gallon system

[gws3]

Threw together some quick CAD last night to help visualize how the fixtures would look over the tank.  Since the ceiling is so high I'll be using l-brackets.  I think the Vervve is the best looking aesthetically.  Thoughts?

 

[dpassar12]

I like the last 2,  The radions are a little boxy, the middle looks like it might restrict using a long grabber or similar device without moving the light. Of the last 2 I would go with #5 mounting the lights horizontal to the wall. I have 4 radions mounted like # 2 and wish I had mounted them like 1 and 5. Would have gotten a little better coverage on the ends. 

[WilRams]

I don't know the specs on the light but what about the Aurora?

[gws3]

I like the last 2,  The radions are a little boxy, the middle looks like it might restrict using a long grabber or similar device without moving the light. Of the last 2 I would go with #5 mounting the lights horizontal to the wall. I have 4 radions mounted like # 2 and wish I had mounted them like 1 and 5. Would have gotten a little better coverage on the ends.

 

  

 

 

I agree I think #5 looks the best. The more people I ask though the radion g4 is superior to the vervve. So I'll likely end up with #1.

 

 

I don't know the specs on the light but what about the Aurora?

From what I understand the Aurora is older led technology compared to the vervve. That's what got me looking at the giesemann Genesis, except they went for a cheaper fixture without active cooling and as a result the LED output is greatly reduced. It's be hard to justify over $2k for older LED performance.

[gws3]

Well I decided Radion Gen 4 Pros are the LEDs I want.  And I want T5s.  So I have taken some of the advice above and plan to build a custom floating canopy.  It will mostly be opaque white acrylic.  Some 8020 for mounting the radions and rear T5s, and a square aluminum tube to mount it to the wall, painted white with some acrylic end caps.  Let me know what you guys think.

 

[khh27]

You can make a pretty good DIY with AI Rails to mount radion and t5s

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[zygote2k]

So how are you going to mitigate the heat that comes off the T5's? Arent you worried that an additional heat source will significantly lower the lifespan of the LED's? Or at least the fans/drivers/etc?

 

In my opinion and experience with well over 100 existing tanks, 20 or so with SPS corals and a few of those that had hybrid light systems, excess heat was a factor. Some of the LED fixtures like the black box units had issues with drivers that were slowly cooked to death, and with the AI's, many of the fans died prematurely. Canopy mounted lights fared the worst unless there was an active cooling fan built into the fixture that attempted to push all of the heat away from the lights.

 

Besides- LED grows corals just fine. I'm happy with Kessils and Radions and never looked back to the good ole days of MH and VHO.

[BowieReefer84]

Maybe have the top perforated on the front and back above the T5's with something like this:

http://www.perforatedsheet.org/product/plastic-perforated-sheet.html

 

Honestly though, I feel when it is built it will be much bulkier than expected, and you won't be satisfied. 

Edited September 20, 2017 by BowieReefer84

[gws3]

So how are you going to mitigate the heat that comes off the T5's? Arent you worried that an additional heat source will significantly lower the lifespan of the LED's? Or at least the fans/drivers/etc?

 

In my opinion and experience with well over 100 existing tanks, 20 or so with SPS corals and a few of those that had hybrid light systems, excess heat was a factor. Some of the LED fixtures like the black box units had issues with drivers that were slowly cooked to death, and with the AI's, many of the fans died prematurely. Canopy mounted lights fared the worst unless there was an active cooling fan built into the fixture that attempted to push all of the heat away from the lights.

 

Besides- LED grows corals just fine. I'm happy with Kessils and Radions and never looked back to the good ole days of MH and VHO.

 

I can mount a fan between the radions if too much heat accumulates.  I am used to MHs.  I don't think the ~160 watts of T5 is going to be too bad.

 

Maybe have the top perforated on the front and back above the T5's with something like this:

http://www.perforatedsheet.org/product/plastic-perforated-sheet.html

 

Honestly though, I feel when it is built it will be much bulkier than expected, and you won't be satisfied. 

 

I have tanks with full sized canopies that don't bother me. This one has a profile smaller than the tank.  I'd prefer the floating look than RMS mounts and cords everywhere.

[gws3]

Got the tank plumbed in and my acrylic canopy mostly done.  Very happy with how it turned out.  Not a single cord visible.  I added a fan and ducting through some acrylic partitions to keep the T5s from getting too hot.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by gws3

[YHSublime]

Freeeeeeeeesh! Also, nice aqua scape

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WilRams]

I dig it. Looks good!

[tygger]

Looking good!