dchild June 19, 2006 Share June 19, 2006 Most of the UPS devices you will buy are designed to keep your PC running for a few minutes so you have time to save your stuff before you lose power altogether. That's OK for a workstation but I needed a better solution for my tank. I built this setup to keep my tank going during most power outages. It's a deep cycle battery (wal-mart ~ $60) connected to an inverter (amazon ~ $40) and a charger (DIY, free cause I had the parts). Inside the blue handy box is a radio shack 120V ($5) relay with the coil and NO (normally open) contacts wired to the wall and the NC (normally connected) contacts wired to the inverter. So as soon as the wall voltage cuts out, the inverter picks up the load. The relay is fast enough to keep my computer on. The battery has a capacity of about 120 amp-hours. 3x MJ1200 takes about 5 amps at 12V (60W) so my tank should be guaranteed ~900 gph of flow for almost 25 hours! Triple that for a single MJ1200. Granted, the system is not 100% efficient, so I won't get quite that, but it'll be close. The best part is that if I want to increase the run time, I can buy another battery and double the capacity. A UPS designed for a computer may keep your powerheads going for a little while during an outage - but this is real protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl June 19, 2006 Share June 19, 2006 That is great !! For us novices...would you be able to list out the exact parts (Radio Shack relay), and a wiring diagram? Are there any obvious downsides to doing this? beyond the ~25 hour capacity? -Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardofNOVA June 20, 2006 Share June 20, 2006 Steven, This is excellent, Appreciate your expertise in this department for all, being STORM season is here and more outages will be forthcoming for sure! Any chance down the road you could be willing to lead another DIY party on building these units or is the simplicity pretty straight forward in what you have laid out here? BTW, For those who don't know, Steven design our TopOff Switches a while back that worked great! Steven, I sold your 2 switches on my firesale a few months ago, one to Inna and other can't remember. But could you post a diagram on how they work, what hooks up to where, etc for them? Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchild June 20, 2006 Author Share June 20, 2006 Thanks! Carl, here's the wiring diagram I don't know the part # on the relay, but any DPDT 120V coil relay will work. This is the inverter I used. The great thing about this guy is that the fan only turns on over 100 watts - most inverters will run the fan continuously when on. Howard, I'd be happy to lead a DIY party down the road. The only hard part of this is the charger. YOUR $20 WALMART CHARGER WILL NOT WORK! They don't have a true "float" charge, and will "boil" off the water in your batteries, requiring monthly topoffs. My charger is a 3A 13.2V regulated power supply. It would take 2 or 3 days to recharge after a complete battery drain, but will not overcharge the battery. If we had a group together, I bet we could build the chargers for <$10 apeice. FYI, depending on the inverter, these will work as multi-hour backup devices for your TV, refrigerator, computer etc. As far as the float switch goes, the hookups are pretty straightforward. There are markings on the board (may have to tilt a little to see them) that say AC IN/AC OUT/FLOAT. A cheap extension cord has 2 wires, these go into AC IN. The plug from the same cord has 2 wires, these go to AC OUT. The float switch has 2 wires, these go to FLOAT. For all these, it doesn't really matter which is which. WARNING: the traces on the board are uninsulated. DO NOT touch the board if it is plugged in! COVER the board while in use! There is a mod in the works that will keep the float switch on for a few seconds at a time (I haven't forgotten you craby/Luke); that way your pump won't cycle on/off with the waves when you have your hands in the sump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybv June 20, 2006 Share June 20, 2006 Something else you can consider that is much less complex is a deep cycle battery and a 12v boat bilge pump. It would be a manual start, but with a bilgepump in a sump pumping back to the tank will at least give you some water movement, and even better add a venturi on the end to inject O2. John Thanks! Carl, here's the wiring diagram I don't know the part # on the relay, but any DPDT 120V coil relay will work. This is the relay I used. The great thing about this guy is that the fan only turns on over 100 watts - most inverters will run the fan continuously when on. Howard, I'd be happy to lead a DIY party down the road. The only hard part of this is the charger. YOUR $20 WALMART CHARGER WILL NOT WORK! They don't have a true "float" charge, and will "boil" off the water in your batteries, requiring monthly topoffs. My charger is a 3A 13.2V regulated power supply. It would take 2 or 3 days to recharge after a complete battery drain, but will not overcharge the battery. If we had a group together, I bet we could build those for <$10 apeice. FYI, depending on the inverter, these will work as multi-hour backup devices for your TV, refrigerator, computer etc. As far as the float switch goes, the hookups are pretty straightforward. There are markings on the board (may have to tilt a little to see them) that say AC IN/AC OUT/FLOAT. A cheap extension cord has 2 wires, these go into AC IN. The plug from the same cord has 2 wires, these go to AC OUT. The float switch has 2 wires, these go to FLOAT. For all these, it doesn't really matter which is which. WARNING: the traces on the board are uninsulated. DO NOT touch the board if it is plugged in! COVER the board while in use! There is a mod in the works that will keep the float switch on for a few seconds at a time (I haven't forgotten you craby/Luke); that way your pump won't cycle on/off with the waves when you have your hands in the sump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeltwayBandit June 20, 2006 Share June 20, 2006 A couple of words of caution from the resident worry wart. Make sure that the battery is maintained in a well ventillated space. Charging batteries vent H2 gas and can create and explosive atmosphere if not properly ventillated. Also, make sure that the battery is stored on some type of corrosion resistant skid as they can leak acid and make a mess. A suggestion would be to go to WestMarine or BoatUS and get a battery box. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil June 20, 2006 Share June 20, 2006 Any interest in a battery backup building "party?" to knock out a few of these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardofNOVA June 20, 2006 Share June 20, 2006 I would be interested, but would have to be in later July. Kalk Reactor, pumps etc off of JM in early July Got to get my tank off of Jeff around mid July Fish and corals off of Mike first in late July ....and setup my tank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchild June 20, 2006 Author Share June 20, 2006 BeltwayBandit is right about the risks. We can, however, minimize the gas released by not overcharging the battery - the higher the charge voltage, the more gas is released. IMO (which is not expert) these things are perfectly safe to leave in a large room. An added benefit of the battery box is that it covers the terminals. You don't want a cat, child, etc touching both sides of the battery at the same time. FWIW, one of these would be a fine alternative to building the charger circuit. It's more expensive but you don't have to solder anything. I'd be happy organizing a build party (cannot host though). Since the battery comes from wal-mart, it would be BYOB (bring your own battery). Since the inverter already comes with free shipping, there's no point in a group order for those (BYOI - bring your own inverter). Basically we'd be building the chargers (a.k.a. regulated DC power supplies) and wiring the relays (these will be only a buck or two apeice in a group order). We can also tackle assembly, which amounts to 20 minutes with a cheap toolbox, a drill and some zip ties. Note that the inverter I used is capable of running most return pumps and even a 200W heater (depending on the pump used), albeit for a shorter duration. Folks who know they will not run much wattage through these can also buy a smaller, cheaper inverter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil June 21, 2006 Share June 21, 2006 I'd probably be able to host in August (after the 3rd). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybv June 21, 2006 Share June 21, 2006 I'd probably be able to host in August (after the 3rd). I can host it at my shop whenever, just let me know when you want to do this. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil June 24, 2006 Share June 24, 2006 I don't know the part # on the relay, but any DPDT 120V coil relay will work. This is the relay I used. The great thing about this guy is that the fan only turns on over 100 watts - most inverters will run the fan continuously when on. Ok - I'm a little confused (probably because I'm out of my element). The diagram lists an inverter, charger, relay and battery. This link above points to an inverter, but you say its the relay you used - is that the same thing, or did you mean to type inverter? Is this the Shopping List? Deep Cycle Marine Battery - Walmart Battery Box - West Marine Inverter - Amazon Charger - Amazon DPDT 120v Relay - Radio Shack Socket - Home Depot/Lowe's/Radio Shack(?) Some other kind of plastic box to put the inverter, charger, relay, socket into - Home Depot/Lowe's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil June 25, 2006 Share June 25, 2006 I am less confused today after going shopping. I was able to get nearly everything at wal-mart (at least for the short-term, I'm ordering the charger and inverter fom Amazon today and taking back what I picked up there). The only exception was the relay. I went to Radio Shack hoping to get some help, but man, that store has changed... they were pretty useless unless I wanted to buy an off-the-shelf accessory. So - what kind of relay to get? This one seems the most logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardofNOVA June 25, 2006 Share June 25, 2006 Excellent Gang! August will work for me, will start in mid-July picking up side items! Keep us posted on any upgrade suggestions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchild June 25, 2006 Author Share June 25, 2006 Ok - I'm a little confused (probably because I'm out of my element). The diagram lists an inverter, charger, relay and battery. This link above points to an inverter, but you say its the relay you used - is that the same thing, or did you mean to type inverter? Oops, I meant to say inverter. Sorry 'bout that, I've edited the original post. The second relay you point to is perfect. I recommend that you get the relay plug (looks like this but it has the same type of connectors as the bottom of the relay - easier to solder point-to-point Yea the employees at radio shack are pretty much useless... I recommend using some combination of ignoring them, shouting, pretending to not speak english, body odor, etc to keep them away from you so you can find what you need... even if it takes you 20 min, it will still be faster than if they help you. Looks like you are ready to build on your own? Make sure you wire the float charger to the wall voltage and not to the final output, otherwise you'll be using the battery to charge itself I would add to your list a blue old work handybox, a duplex (outlet) and a cover plate. Wire up the relay inside there. Also, Home depot has some wire conenctors that don't require you to strip the wire, or even cut one of them. The ones I'm thinking of are blue and have a metal tab sticking up out of the top. Not necessary but they'll make life a little bit easier. Also a spade bit or olfe saw to drill vent holes in whichever plastic box you choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CapHillReef July 15, 2006 Share July 15, 2006 May I suggest using a gel cell battery? The charging circuit may need to be changed slightly, but it's much safer indoors. It's really not a good idea to charge regular batteries inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loknar28 August 1, 2006 Share August 1, 2006 Instead of using a standard Wall outlet plug would it not be advisable to use a GFCI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loknar28 August 1, 2006 Share August 1, 2006 (edited) I am just currious if there is any protection from a short(tank spill) built into the current design(in the Inverter,ect..) or is this something that would need to be added in the form of a GFCI wall outlet on the battery box. I have one currently on the wall that is used for my tank now, but if I hook this backup unit upto it, my assumption is that even if it where to trip, the battery is still supplying power to it's battery box outlet reguardless. Edited August 1, 2006 by loknar28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchild August 2, 2006 Author Share August 2, 2006 I am just currious if there is any protection from a short(tank spill) built into the current design(in the Inverter,ect..) or is this something that would need to be added in the form of a GFCI wall outlet on the battery box. I have one currently on the wall that is used for my tank now, but if I hook this backup unit upto it, my assumption is that even if it where to trip, the battery is still supplying power to it's battery box outlet reguardless. You're absolutely right. When we did the build party we used GFCI outlets as they are necessary for safety in a power outage situation. If you spill water on the inverter, you will still probably damage the inverter - but your tank (and you, if your hands are in it) will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbartco August 15, 2006 Share August 15, 2006 OK, I got the amazon float charger and built my backup before I left. The inverter and relay work fine, but when I put on the cables to the terminals, with the power off, my charger fried. I thought I couldn't be stupid enough to put this on the terminal backwards! Rechecked the + and - and I was fine, but my charger fried nonetheless. Anyone have a bum charger? I have not taken it apart to see, and I can't return as the 120v side was chopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ne0eN September 2, 2006 Share September 2, 2006 Ok, has anyone else experienced problems with the Xantrex 700W inverters? I ordered 2 from Amazon. One was DOA (it kept cycling fan/red LED when turned on - even without any load). The 2nd one appeared to work fine, untill today's 1 hr power outage (Pam's house in Falls Church). After 10 min this inverter started doing the same thing - cycling fan/red LED. It his product a POS or what? -- Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emissary September 3, 2006 Share September 3, 2006 Ok, has anyone else experienced problems with the Xantrex 700W inverters? I ordered 2 from Amazon. One was DOA (it kept cycling fan/red LED when turned on - even without any load). The 2nd one appeared to work fine, untill today's 1 hr power outage (Pam's house in Falls Church). After 10 min this inverter started doing the same thing - cycling fan/red LED. It his product a POS or what? Wouldn't you know it, mine blew. I'm still without power. Same fan red light thing. ARGH. I went out to Advance and picked up an 800W inverter to run my mag18 and a small powerhead. Ran for approximately 7 hours before the battery gave up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yomeister66 September 3, 2006 Share September 3, 2006 Same here...that inverter sucks. Worked for about 30 minutes before calling it quits. I already vented in another posts, so I'l leave it at that :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybv September 3, 2006 Share September 3, 2006 Same here...that inverter sucks. Worked for about 30 minutes before calling it quits. I already vented in another posts, so I'l leave it at that :( Well this is not good! Any positive results with replacements, and if so what type / brand? JOhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emissary September 3, 2006 Share September 3, 2006 Well this is not good! Any positive results with replacements, and if so what type / brand? JOhn See my Ernesto thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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