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120 plumbing plans - lots of drilling


treesprite

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(edited)

I think it was unrealistic to believe I could get away without drilling more holes in this 120 gallon tank, so I'm starting a fresh thread to focus on plans that are based on drilling a lot more holes. Trying to figure out how to get away with not doing the additional drilling, was stressing me out and making me very discouraged, so either I can make the effort to drill, or give up on it.

 

I'm attaching a picture diagram of what I am thinking, because it's a bit confusing to explain.

 

A. Sump circulation:

1. Drill 2x 1" new drain holes in upper middle of tank back.

2. Overflow:  will have to be limited to about 20".

- Option (a) have a wider internal box to fit drain plumbing in it. The 1.5 hole in tank corner can be my emergency drain above the water line, so I'll have a modified BA (because emergency drain will be outside of OF box). This would be way easier than (b), but I think (b) is better.

- Option (b) have a thin internal box, just let water just flow through holes into an external box with 3 holes in the bottom for BA plumbing. My understanding from Calfo is that the thinner OF box will make better surface skimming. I like this idea better than option (a), but would have to make an external box, drill 3 more holes, and use a boat load of silicone to make it secure.

3. Sump return: over the back of the tank.

 

B. Closed Loops:

1. Drains: use the original lower 1" holes as drains for 2 or 3 separate loops (if 2, will plug center hole)  

2. Return holes and pumps: drill some 3/4" holes and use those plus the original upper back 1" holes

- Option (a) for 2 loops on pumps alternating with a timer. Each pump to return to 1 upper hole and a 3/4" hole that is diagonally on the opposite side of the tank at midway height (so there will be diagonal cross current, but will alternate upper left/lower right with upper right/lower left)

- Option (b) for 3 loops to give gentle constant bottom flow: drill 2 more 3/4" holes near bottom of back glass (bottom of tank is tempered), connect to a gentle pump which will be fed through the hole that is plugged Option (a). I could do this if I'm not feeling lazy and if there aren't already too many holes making Swiss cheese of the tank back.

 

post-1671-0-42349400-1491743904_thumb.jpg

Edited by treesprite
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- Option (b) have a thin internal box, just let water just flow through holes into an external box with 3 holes in the bottom for BA plumbing. My understanding from Calfo is that the thinner OF box will make better surface skimming. I like this idea better than option (a), but would have to make an external box, drill 3 more holes, and use a boat load of silicone to make it secure.

 

Or you could get yourself a Ghost-type overflow.  Between the cost of your time, and the cost of all the supplies, you'll come close to paying as much as you would for a professionally made overflow with a proven design.  You've got plenty of other DIY things to do with this build.  Don't go out of your way to make things harder.

 

I also recommend that before you drill CL holes, you figure out what you want for your internal turnover.  Then figure out what pump you want.  THEN determine what size bulkhead you need.  Not every pump will perform well with 3/4" discharge plumbing.

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Also take in consideration how the plumbing will be under the tank. Three closed loops is a lot of plumbing! With the odd configuration you may have a rats nest under your tank. One loop with a backup pump would be much easier right? Especially with such a small footprint under your tank, is everything going to be under a cabinet? There is a lot to think about and plan ahead for when making a closed loop with more than one pump.

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Birdsnest is a good term to describe it. I would have to work pipes around each other. I do have a heat gun and sand to bend pipes (a long time ago I made a couple PVC style overflows by bending pipes into the proper shapes instead of using elbows... they worked fine, but flow through those things is only suitable for a really small tank).

 

The reason for two CL pumps is to alternate them with a timer. I would rather do that than use a current switching device stuck into the plumbing.

 

The upper 2 holes are 1". The lower holes I was thinking 3/4" only because I was worried about having so many holes in the tank - I could do 1", but I need some convincing that the back of the tank isn't going to fall apart with that many 1" holes. Anyone want to comment on that?

 

I haven't started trying to figure out exact pump sizes yet. I know that if I use multiple pumps (to switch with a timer), the pumps can be smaller. I also know that if I want flow at the bottom of the tank, I wouldn't want it so strong that stuff blows around, or that it is annoying to creatures who hang around down there. I was thinking for down there a low constant flow would be better that a higher switching flow that would blow around sand and bother creatures that hang out on or near the bottom.

 

I have to look up shadow overflows. Glass is not that expensive, at least it wasn't when I got it several times in the past. It starts getting costly if the customer starts adding in tiny features to the way the glass is processed after it has been cut.

 

For some people this hobby is more interesting when it involves projects. I like having a project to work on and to kind of experiment on; I just don't want it to take forever or be too physically demanding. The tank was cheap, so if I screw it up, it will be frustrating, but not as big of a loss as if I experimented this way on a brand new tank. I will learn from how the work turns out, so I will know what to not do the next time (in other words, this will not necessarily be the last tank I ever get).

 

I still wish I could just do a cut out for an external-only overflow box. I would lose money if the tank broke, but only 120 because it was used, and if it was just a matter of a bad or ugly cut, putting an internal overflow in front of it would hide the error (water in an overflow doesn't come up high enough to get through a cut-out). It really would only require using a Dremel and tile cutting bit to make a straight cut between two small holes.

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I looked at those overflows. It's really nice how it has the built-in bulkhead things.

 

I should probably do some research to figure out the costs of all this tank stuff before I start anything. That will help determine what I do for the overflow.

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(edited)

Here's a way to waste your time. ... Please look at the attached picture and tell me, as far as a closed loop goes, which holes you would use to do what. The holes with red centers are the holes already in the tank, so they must be included regardless of other hole options. If you would make a hole any size other than 1", please say so.  If you want to recommend flow rate of pumps to go with the holes you indicate, please do.

post-1671-0-49550500-1491804907_thumb.jpg

Edited by treesprite
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Not sure exactly what you are looking to accomplish, but I have a few thoughts. If you did an internal coast to coast overflow it would be easy to build with just two pieces of cut glass. You could use existing holes D & E plus the 1.5" existing drain. I would use either D or E for the full siphon and the other as the secondary with the 1.5" as the emergency backup (since it is higher up already it would be easy to plumb).

 

Then I would simply plug hole B somehow.

 

Lastly, I would use A & C for a closed loop.

 

The last thing I would want to do is drill MORE holes in that tank. Each hole is an opportunity for a leak.

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Not sure exactly what you are looking to accomplish, but I have a few thoughts. If you did an internal coast to coast overflow it would be easy to build with just two pieces of cut glass. You could use existing holes D & E plus the 1.5" existing drain. I would use either D or E for the full siphon and the other as the secondary with the 1.5" as the emergency backup (since it is higher up already it would be easy to plumb).

 

Then I would simply plug hole B somehow.

 

Lastly, I would use A & C for a closed loop.

 

The last thing I would want to do is drill MORE holes in that tank. Each hole is an opportunity for a leak.

That was all the plan I did have. I already have put C2Cs in other tanks, so it's nothing new to me. Then, between people's comments (not all here), and me wanting really to have more CL returns, made me think other things. The only way to get 2 more CL holes is to either drill 2 holes, or use only that one original 1.5" sump drain hole and not have the surface skimming of a long overflow (which I would not like).

 

The thing about C2C is that in addition to surface skimming, I think it adds flow in the tank by creating an undertow when there is flow coming from underneath of it.

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(edited)

It appears from measuring with a ruler, that the bottom of the corner 1.5" bulkhead is at the height of the top of the bulkheads in the 2 upper 1" returns, with no overlap. So if I take out the bulkhead to give me a I slight gap, maybe I can squeeze in a (somewhat shallow) C2C above those returns, let the water go through the large hole into an external box with BA plumbing. Then I can use those 2 1" holes for CL. That 1.5" hole is plenty of hole for the flow that will come from the sump return, it's just that it isn't really safe to have only one drain pipe, which can be resolved with the external box. The C2C would only be a few inches high, but I know it will have enough space for the flow based on experience with my old tank, and it doesn't have to be tall to do skimming.

 

That plan might still require one single additional CL hole to be drilled.

Edited by treesprite
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(edited)

If I did the above, I could probably completely avoid drilling hole by putting just one of the CL returns over the back of the tank. This is if I use the center hole as a feed for one upper and one lower hole, and the second lower hole as a feed for one upper return and one over the back return (would be a pipe that goes to the level of the lower return on the other side). That might seem weird, with the flow not coming from symetrical points, but it would work. I would possibly put a hole in the bottom of the overflow and send the pipe through it. Or I could go back to the idea to plug the center hole then use both lower holes as feeds and put 2 returns down the back to be my lower tank returns... then it would be symetrical. Some people seem not to like the idea of CL returns over the back, but plenty of people seem to do it. If I put the pipes through the bottom of the overflow, and have them be black, they won't be so noticeable.

 

Where do people get black PVC anyway? I usually paint it with Krylon Fusion, but it gets scraped easily.

Edited by treesprite
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Wow I should paint the tank purple and use purple PVC. Just kidding, but I really did not know that it could be had in all those colors.

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