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Nart's 15G nano tank


Nart

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Hello All!

 

I am new to this forum and also new to the saltwater world. Finally decided to get back into fishes after moving to the Northern Virginia area. I came from California where I had access to plenty of fish stores for my freshwater tanks. Anyways... Here is my 15 gallon nano tank that I just started. I would love for any tips, guidance, and recommendations.

 

Prepping my 15G freshwater tank to saltwater.

0abb0ffa14251a604a009658fc573e19.jpg

 

Live rocks arrived early so I quickly threw together the Rock scaping.

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Waited for water to clear and re-did my rock scaping.

562d88015f93d3e31bdbf1843d7d9f9f.jpg

 

Here is the list of what I have in the tank so far:

20lbs of CaribSea Aragonite sand

20lbs of APurpleReef.com live rock

11 gallon of NutriSea water

100W Aqueon Pro heater

Koralia 425gph power head

AQ50 hob w/ Matrix bio-media (will also use ChemiPure Blue and Purigen once tank is cycled)

Current Satellite 24" LED light (white/blue with adjustable dimmers)

Glass lid

 

Planning to stock the tank with:

 

Fishes:

2 Picasso/snowflake clowns

1 yasha goby + 1 pistol shrimp

1-2 Astrea snails

 

Corals:

Zoas, Acan, frogspawn, Duncan, toadstool, Xenia.

 

What do you guys think of my tank stocking?

 

Also, do you have recommendations in the corals just to get my feet wet? It's pretty overwhelming with all the different kinds of corals but for the most part I think I've narrowed down the easy/beginner corals to get into. I'm thinking of stopping by Blue Ribbon Koi once my tank is cycled. Any recommendation of where to buy starter corals would be greatly appreciated as well.

 

Also, I am either planning to make the AQ110 hob refugium or turn a spare 10G into a sump. I know 10G sump is a no brainer... But I am having a hard time trying to figure out the schematics to make one. It's a fun learning experience but so overwhelming at times, especially since I am not the best DIY person.

 

Thank you.

Benjamin

 

 

 

 

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Edited by Nart
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Hi can't wait to see how your tank turn out! I don't know anything about acans and Duncan's but all the others are pretty hardy and so are mushroom coral, palys, birdsnests, monti caps, and more. Make sure to properly light acclimate the corals, especially the frogspawn. If the seller of any coral tells you they don't know what something is and you don't know for sure either, don't buy it. I've bought a red dragon acro and a Kenya tree this way when I started out. As far as DIY stuff I'm clueless, but good luck! Looking forward to seeing more tank updates!

 

 

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Thank you Mari for the suggestions! Some more corals for me to consider!

 

 

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Thank you Mari for the suggestions! Some more corals for me to consider!

 

No problem! I've put a lot of corals that are probably not good for a beginners tank so you can branch out a bit but there's always a risk. I have a Hollywood stunner chalice, a sunset Monti, blasto, and just recently a bubble coral. The bubble coral bag was actually leaking really fast so i had to drop it in with no acclimation. It's the most expensive coral I've gotten. I was very lucky it didn't die.

 

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(edited)

Understood. I think l the more challenging corals I will save for when the tank matures a bit more. I think I am concerned about getting fasting growing corals that will overtake the whole tank and have trouble fragging them. I was considering making it 1 coral specific only tank, but that might be too boring?

 

 

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It honestly depends. I've seen a 5 gallon nano with mostly Xenia which looks cool but a 20 gallon with all Xenia just looks like an indistinct mass of pink. I think you have to consider the shape and polyp size compared to your tank size as well as what a colony looks like and if you'll be content with only one. I went to a frag swap and told myself "only get soft coral" and boy was I wrong. I wanted everything. And bought everything. I like to think of it like a garden. I like variety, but an all rose garden is beautiful too.

Edited by mari.harutunian
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Welcome!

I think one of the biggest issues with tanks that small is maintaining water quality. Lower volume of water = faster changes in conditions. I think that for nanos frequent water changes are in order. Adding a sump helps increase your water volume. Hopefully some of the people with nano tanks will chime in.

Some of the soft corals are more forgiving about water quality, hard corals are not, so you are definitely better starting off with those. It won't take you long before you'll want those hard corals though!

I couldn't ID that HOB filter you are using to see what it does. Just be careful, some things that work great for freshwater end up generating too much nitrates for saltwater. I haven't used the Matrix bio-media but if it does what it says then you are probably okay.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

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I completely get what you mean Mari. I would probably buy up all the corals too. I just want something easy to care for and maintain for now and still look vibrant to go along with my fishes.

 

Thanks Rob! Yeah I will be very diligent with water changes. I'm a huge stickler with dirty tanks and can't stand it.

 

I would really do a sump. I tried doing research in putting together one and my lord... It is a bit overwhelming especially with the in/out pump. I'm afraid of overflowing. My wife would be very angry with me lol.

 

I think for starters I would go with Zoas and frogspawn? Unlike my freshwater tanks I am very nervous in diving right in with stocking the saltwater tank. This will be a learning experience for me so I will keep you all posted!

 

I know my setup is nothing much compared to the setups I've seen here, but it's all I have for now and I am so excited about this hobby and meeting local reefers!

 

 

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Zoanthids are a pretty good pick. Any euphyllia (frogspawn/torch coral/ hammer coral) is moderate care level so it's not something that is bulletproof. I've killed a hammer coral by dropping it and it getting infected. Ive also had one get brown jelly maybe because I purchased it sick. You may want some mushrooms, Xenia, clove polyps, or leather corals. If you're afraid of them getting out of control then put them on a separate rock. The Xenia will still drop branches occasionally though. My 3" xenia has dropped little polyps twice even though it has room to grow.

 

 

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(edited)

Thank you for the suggestions Mari! I just saw that BRK got some new corals in and Centreville just got in a bunch of clowns so sad that I can't get anything yet..... Hopefully my tank will be done cycling soon.

 

 

Also, is it bad to get a handful of frag corals at a time and put them in the tank? Would that cause a huge strain for the bio-load?

 

Here's the latest status of the cycle.

post-2636312-148362488925_thumb.jpg

 

 

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Looks like you have a ways to go for your cycle. I don't think I ever saw that much ammonia in my tank during my cycle ever. What method are you using? I used biospira and a shrimp. As for the corals all at once, I did it, but as many people would agree, it's not suggested. Corals add nothing to the bioload but if there's something wrong with the water or the parameters aren't stable you could kill everything. I started with Xenia and GSP but added 17 frags from the PA frag swap at one time. Mine turned out okay. The corals I lost of those 17 were because of poor light acclimation and sickness. I'd start with a few cheap and easy frags to start. Mushrooms are usually always bullet proof. More so than zoas.

 

 

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(edited)

I just tested ammonia (0.25) and nitrite (2.0). It seems to be trending down fairly quickly. I'm actually using powder ammonium chloride (by Fretz Pro Aquatics) and dosed it at 4ppm ammonia. So that's why it is so high right off the bat. I thought back afterwards, I may have dosed too much... So which might've stalled the BB colony a tad. I'm also using Stability everyday till the cycle is done.

 

What % water change is recommended after its done cycling?

 

 

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I'm by no means an expert at cycles but I think people recommended 50% to me. Never did it... always did 10% weekly then went to 10% every two weeks... but hey my nitrate went down. Probably could've avoided some algae with a 50% change. I'd ask someone more experienced to be sure.

 

 

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Welcome Benjamin   :)

 

I'm not an expert, but I've had my 20 gallon nano going for over 8 years and through 4 moves. (I've had other nano tanks simultaneously too).

 

A couple of pointers i have learned:

 

You can't have too big of a clean up crew. You will need things for stirring the sand bed, picking at algae on the rocks, and especially eating the extra food (that the fish don't eat) before it turns into fertilizer for algae. A mix of reef-safe hermit crabs, lots of snails, and a few other things.

 

No matter what... ALWAYS closely inspect coral frags for pests BEFORE buying them. If you don't know about the common reef pests, time to start reading. Most things you can't get rid of once you get it. Especially asterina
starfish (they eat zooanthid corals), but including red bugs, flatworms, bubble algae, even mantis shrimp. You can't be overly cautious, so don't be tempted to buy that sketchy looking, "cheap frag" from a swap or a store, cause it could end up costing you a lot more later.

 

Find and stick to a regiment for adding new things to the tank. More than just acclimation, a "dip" is also helpful to prevent introducing pests, algae, and other unwanted things into a tank.

 

Quarantine tanks are excellent if you can afford the space (even temporarily).

 

NEVER ever use a copper treatment in a reef tank. Deadly for inverts and coral.

 

Don't expect the clownfish to reach maturity in a small tank. Probably won't grow over 1.5" and won't spawn. It's best to buy clowns that have already paired up so they don't fight. And they don't need an anemone, they will rub on just about anything.

 

 

 

 

Understood. I think l the more challenging corals I will save for when the tank matures a bit more. I think I am concerned about getting fasting growing corals that will overtake the whole tank and have trouble fragging them. I was considering making it 1 coral specific only tank, but that might be too boring?


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Avoid green star polyps (GSP) and mushrooms then. Once you put either in the tank, they will eventually take over. Mushrooms can also emit chemical signals that will prevent neighbor corals from growing out.

 

 

I completely get what you mean Mari. I would probably buy up all the corals too. I just want something easy to care for and maintain for now and still look vibrant to go along with my fishes.

Thanks Rob! Yeah I will be very diligent with water changes. I'm a huge stickler with dirty tanks and can't stand it.

I would really do a sump. I tried doing research in putting together one and my lord... It is a bit overwhelming especially with the in/out pump. I'm afraid of overflowing. My wife would be very angry with me lol.

I think for starters I would go with Zoas and frogspawn? Unlike my freshwater tanks I am very nervous in diving right in with stocking the saltwater tank. This will be a learning experience for me so I will keep you all posted!

I know my setup is nothing much compared to the setups I've seen here, but it's all I have for now and I am so excited about this hobby and meeting local reefers!


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Zoas are a good starter coral. They actually prefer a little bit dirtier water than some of the difficult corals. They also can tolerate a lot of different lighting, and look great with just the blue LEDs on at night. Start with the cheap ones.

Eventually you can read their behavior and see what flow and light makes them happiest. Some exotic zoas do have neurotoxins (Palytoxin), so be careful when handling.

 

Frogspawn and other LPS coral (duncan, Acans, etc) are a bit more finicky and need calcium supplements to grow their skeleton. A lot in this family also have sweeper tentacles (to sting their neighbors) and may not be good for a small tank.

 

With your current light fixture, you should concentrate on corals that don't have a high light requirement.

 

 

With regard to equipment, you don't have to go with a sump setup. My 20 gallon nano has all hang-on-back accessories. I have a CPR Bak-Pak 2 protein skimmer (no bio-bale) and I made a custom pipe to output to a Aqua Clear 110 filter that I use as a combination chemical filtration (media bag with carbon/phosguard) and a fuge to grow chaetomorpha (macro algae that provides nutrient export), with a LED fixture on top.

 

There are other HOB style equipment available depending on what you want to accomplish (and how much space you have to hide it). Various manufactures of canister filters and media reactors too.

 

Looks like you have a ways to go for your cycle. I don't think I ever saw that much ammonia in my tank during my cycle ever. What method are you using? I used biospira and a shrimp. As for the corals all at once, I did it, but as many people would agree, it's not suggested. Corals add nothing to the bioload but if there's something wrong with the water or the parameters aren't stable you could kill everything. I started with Xenia and GSP but added 17 frags from the PA frag swap at one time. Mine turned out okay. The corals I lost of those 17 were because of poor light acclimation and sickness. I'd start with a few cheap and easy frags to start. Mushrooms are usually always bullet proof. More so than zoas.


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Yep, mushrooms are bulletproof, which also means you can't kill them when they take over ;-)

 

 

Anyway, welcome to the world of saltwater.

 

Read a lot, ask lots of questions, and have fun! :cool:

Edited by schudini
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Guess I'm just impatient with growing corals :) hilariously enough the fastest growing coral in my tank is probably a birdsnest. With a nano tank you should probably avoid the fast ones because they will fill the tank fast.

 

 

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I forgot to mention if you like the look of mushrooms, but with a lot more color, then check out ricordea and yuma.

 

Would recommend them after a bit more experience though, as they are not "easy" or cheap.

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Take what I say with a grain of salt, but I've wasted a ton of time, energy, and money during my short time reefkeeping (~4 years), and if I can steer you away from some of the more common problems, I'll consider it a success.

 

Not sure if this has popped up yet, but an ATO would be incredibly helpful for a tank that size, especially if you want to keep anything other than softies. I have a smart ATO and a small freshwater reservoir and it was well worth the investment. Manual top-offs are a pain, and you'd need to do it everyday, and if you're a normal person that will be one of the first tasks you slack on. Given the size of your tank, the day-to-day fluctuation in salinity wouldn't be great for any moderate care coral such as frogspawn. I also suggest taking a look at leather corals as well. I had a massive tank crash last year and the only survivors were a gsp rock and a large green leather toadstool coral that I've had for years.

 

I'd suggest posting in the WTB/WTS section of Wamas and seeing if anyone would be willing to make a frag for you, as they're incredibly overpriced at a LFS but are more or less given away on the forum. Same with pulsing xenia (which I continue to love, despite its reputation as a pest) and cheap blue and red mushrooms. If at all possible, I'd start by purchasing livestock and corals from the forum instead of a LFS since the better forum members have already taken care of the quarantine process and can walk you through their own history of pests (there will always be some). All of the pest issues I've had in the past have been attributed to livestock and corals purchased from various LFS in the area, since they tend to do a quick dip and turn around their products quickly. Or you can spend a bit more and purchase fish from Marco at Exotic Reef Creations, who has a pretty extensive quarantine process for his fish. Better to spend the extra 20-25% upfront for a fish with a lifespan of 10-20 years than go through a bunch of fish waiting for a healthy one. 

 

As far as stocking, you can't go wrong with a clownfish pair and a goby/pistol shrimp combo. Add some kind of hovering and peaceful mid tank fish (firefish, etc), and you have an active, peaceful setup. With a tank your size, unless you want to go full semi-aggressive, I'd stay away from wrasses (sixlines, etc), since they get really territorial and will kill any new arrivals, unless you plan to only have a pair of clowns and a single sixline. I also second having a large cleanup crew consisting of small snails and hermits. Your tank is too small for the larger snails and hermits, but an army of the smaller ones would be great for a tank your size. I'd also add a single cleaner shrimp, mostly because they have really cool personalities. I unfortunately can't keep inverts since I have a puffer, but c'est la vie. 

 

Most importantly, try not to go down the "I know I've read that these two fish living together are considered iffy, but maybe I'll get lucky" rabbit hole. It almost never works out long term, and, at best, you'll have a stressed out setup or, more likely, you'll lose a bunch of fish trying to be the exception. It's hard to keep yourself from doing that when you have a peaceful setup and that beautiful wrasse or puffer or damsel is so tempting and the LFS worker tells you that it'll probably be fine, but fight the temptation if you can (admittedly, sometimes you won't). 

 

Your setup looks great so far, and good luck!

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Lastly, for a tank your size, no mandarins or scooter blennies or dragonets. They're tiny and awesome and seem like they'd be fine, but they need large systems with tons of copepods to survive, let alone thrive. Hope this helps. 

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You all are awesome! Thank you for the great advice and I will take in all the insights for nano to heart.

 

I have been looking into the Finnex breeder/refugium box or modding an AQ110. Finnex seems like the cheaper route to go, does anyone have any experience with that? As far as a small HOB refugium does it really help much? Or do you think it would be better to just load up the HOB with Purigen and Chemical-Pure blue?

 

So with the clean up crew... The wife absolutely does not want hermit crabs in the tank. She had a bad experience with a pet hermit crab as a kid and never wants to see one again. As long as I get the snails, and cleaner shrimp would that suffice?

 

I did look into ATO top offs... That was also overwhelming too. I tried looking for a relatively affordable unit on Amazon and it seemed like they all have issues. Does anyone have an ATO unit that they would recommend?

 

Long story short... I had to scale back on fish purchase stuff because of a recent puppy we adopted from the shelter. Little man's vet visits quickly added up. So, I don't want to seem too cheap when I say "affordable" and what not.

 

I'm hoping for my nitrogen cycle to hit 0,0,0 by Sunday so I can make a visit to Blue Ribbon Koi . Currently my cycle is 0,2,5.

 

I think I am set on getting a yasha goby as the first fish and maybe 2 Zoa frags. I read that pistol shrimp can be kind of annoying due to their snapping sound in the tank... So I might pass up the pistol shrimp.

 

Lastly, I'm shutting down my freshwater tank with two gold ocellatus. If anyone is interested I am looking to re-home them.. PM me!

 

Thanks again all! Much appreciated.

 

 

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Nice. Couple of responses to your points, and again, take with grain of salt:

 

Hermits aren't necessary, imo. They're good for cleaning up detritus, but there are snails that will do the same, and hermits often prey on snails. 

 

It's okay being cheap - keeping a reef gets ridiculously expensive if you let it, so you save where you can. As a general rule, to keep the costs down, don't purchase new unless it's an item with a limited shelf life (tests/food/filter materials/purigen/etc). I've used both a smart ATO, which I love, and a JBJ, which worked okay, but needed a separate pump and uses a float switch, which I'm not a fan of. I'd post a WTB in the for sale section and see what ATO's people have available - most of us have an extra or 2 or 6 laying around. I bought both of mine second hand, and that $50-100 purchase will be one of the most useful you'll make in the long run rather than trying to set up a hob refugium, which won't really do much in a system your size. The nutrient export in a small hob refugium wouldn't show up in your nitrate/nitrite/ammonia readings, and it'd only be useful as a refugium for pods. Yes, there'll some nutrient export, and you may have fewer issues with nuisance algae, but the amount on a 15g tank would be minimal, unless the refugium itself was also large. I had a large CPR aquafuge (about 3 gallons) on my system for a long time, and it was neat to have and fun to watch the copepods/brine shrimp/amphipods/mysis shrimp in their little safe haven, along with the chaeto and caluerpa growth, but when I removed it, it barely registered in my tank readings. I found that it was much more useful to run purigen or chemi-blue.

 

Yasha gobies are awesome - I had one for over 2 years before my office tank crashed :(    They're much more interesting with the pistol shrimp, since they live in the caves the pistol shrimp are continuously building. As far as the snapping sound they make, unless the tank is right next to your bed and the shrimp builds its cave next to the side you sleep on and it's being continuously attacked by a pesky wrasse, you'll rarely notice it. I had two large tiger pistol shrimp and you'd hear the odd click, but it rarely registered. Worst-case, you get one, it's too annoying, and you re-sell it, but it's worth giving a shot if your first fish will be a yasha. 

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(edited)

@rtelles thank you for your insights! I'm thinking Astrea, trophies, and Nessarius snails. I hope they don't go on a mass breeding spree though? What snails would you recommend for a nano?

 

I'm not able to view the buy/sell section. Looks like I have to be a full time member?

I'm considering the Tunze nano ATO on Amazon for $96.

 

As for the HOB, would you not recommend using matrix bio-media at all and just run Purigen or Chemi blue, but not both? I read that folks make their own bag of Chemi pure by buying phosguard and carbon. I'm not sure how true is that?

My thoughts on matrix bio-media is that it would help me maximize the biological filtration on top of my rocks/sand. One thing that boggles me in the saltwater world is how people are able to achieve 0 nitrates. Is this because of refugiums being used with large amounts of macro algae? If this is true, for me to properly run a nano tank, should all my water parameters always be at a constant 0,0,0? What were your water parameters when running a successful nano tank?

 

Perhaps I will go for the pistol shrimp again

 

Thanks again for the great tips everyone. I've done a lot of reading and it's different hearing tips and insights from people first hand. Much appreciated.

 

 

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Edited by Nart
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If hermits are a definite 'no-no' for your tank, then yeah, definitely should make a few nassarius snails part of your cleaning crew - glad to see you have them on your list. While the astrea and trochus (which I assume you mean by 'trophies') snails eat algae (and perhaps a bit of detritus from time to time) the nassarius snails are carnivores and will eat the left over bits of food that are normally taken care of by hermits.  They also spend most of the daylight hours moving beneath the sand, so great 'stirrers' for your sand bed. Or, if you want a little variety in your tank, a peppermint or skunk cleaner shrimp will also take care of leftover bits of food - although they may also steal it from corals you try to target feed as well.

 

Speaking of sand bed stirrers, may want to add a few cerith snails to your list. They too will spend some of their time (mostly daylight hours) moving beneath the sand ... and the rest of it cleaning algae off the glass and rocks.

 

IMHO, for a 15g a good place to start would be around 4 ceriths,  4 or 5 astreas, 1 black trochus, and 5 or 6 nassarius. 

 

You could also substitute a few nerites for an equal number of asteas. Just be aware that they may climb out of the tank for the first couple weeks (until they figure out the tank boundaries) so you'll have to check each morning to see if any wandered out and put them back in.

Edited by malacoda
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So I was still stuck on high nitrites. I decided to stop by BRK anyways to check out the store and I'm glad I did. John tested my water for me we bounced some ideas around and I decided to go with buying one of his live rocks and changed out 20% water. Next day? My nitrites are almost gone and my cycle is nearly done. Whoo hoo!

 

Not too much pictures to update on asides from my small rock rearrangement.

post-2636312-14840174666_thumb.jpg

 

I think I'll be ready for a fish this week. I'm thinking of changing out 25% water before the fish? And 10% two days later after fish to help lower nitrates. My current nitrate reading is 40ppm. Any thoughts?

 

 

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40 ppm is very high. I think I put fish in at 20 ppm and snails in at 15 ppm bc the algae was unbearable. Try and get it as low as you can with water changes or maybe add some macro algae. As for the water changes, I think more is better just to get those nitrates out. 50% will bring you down to 20ppm and then another 50% a few days later should bring you near 10ppm. 25% will bring you to 30ppm and then a following 10% will only bring you to 27ppm. I'm not the best at math or reef tank ownership so ask maybe some experts will chime in.

 

 

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(edited)

Hmmm. Yeah I agree that it's high. For some reason it's hard to find info on how much water to change after cycling. I was afraid of doing too large of a water change because of how it would affect the BB colony.

 

So as discussed with @rtelles we both thought that a macro algae in a hob refuge for a tank my size would not register enough nutrient export to justify it. Rather, than doing macro its going to be far more beneficial to run Chemi-pure and Purigen. When I spoke with John from BRK he said they same thing.

 

So I think for my nutrient export or nutrient absorption I should say... I am going to jam my Aquaclear 70 with bags of Purigen, ChemiPure Blue, and PhosGuard. This should lower all nutrients across the board. By the way... I upgraded to the AquaClear 70! This filter is huge compared to my AQ50

 

 

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Edited by Nart
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