how to build a second story?

[treesprite]

I am trying to figure out how to put a second level in my tank which is deep enough to retain some sand, and strong enough to support some small amount of rock, without taking up the surface area under it. Kind of like an overhang that is deep enough to hold sand, and high enough for there to be other rock under it. I also don't want some obnoxious artificial looking thing there.

 

If I could dig the guts out of some liverock with a large enough surface, and just fit them into the aquascaping, that would work, but I don't know how I could accomplish such a task.

 

Tank footprint is 48 x 24.

[L8 2 RISE]

Not really sure what look your going for, as I can only picture it looking messy, but I would use carbon fiber rods. Use a paver or a spread out pvc base, then drill a small rock, then put a flat marco-rocks piece on top of that to give you your overhang. You could then just pile sand on the flat piece, or epoxy rubble around the edge to create a little pool. I used this method to aquascape my 57 (minus the sand on top), because I like to have minimal LR sitting on the sandbed. There's some pics in my build thread.

[Jon Lazar]

I'm having a hard time visualizing this.  Are you trying to make your rockwork appear to levitate a few inches above the sand bed?

[Bruleyii]

you could try and cement together pieces of shelves and create a bit of a tray. Another way would be to chisle or grind out the middle of a rock almost like making caves. The problem with chiseling is you can crack the rock in half. I know because I tried with a big piece of rock of mine. 

 

This isnt live rock but it can give you a general idea of how to grind out the middle of the live rock. https://youtu.be/wqBjiAJV3aQ

[SandJ]

I don't know how well this would hold up...but, if you had rods going across the top of the tank you could tie fishing line to the rods and attach the rocks the other end of the line. So the rock would be held up with fishing line.

 

Or maybe you could use a clear tray and hold it up with fishing line and put your rock and sand on that.

 

I was thinking of doing this with egg crate to make frag racks.

Edited November 2, 2016 by SandJ

[treesprite]

I guess I could describe it as a loft for dartfish. They will only go where there is sand, which I why they stay around the bottom of the tank. I want to create a bigger sand-covered surface area for them, while also getting them to utilize more of the height of the tank.

 

I typically create very open rockwork with more up and across than on the bottom of the tank, with archways, overhangs, and bridges. I need that second level to somehow have a way to hold in sand deep enough that it won't blow away.

[Origami]

I guess I could describe it as a loft for dartfish. They will only go where there is sand, which I why they stay around the bottom of the tank. I want to create a bigger sand-covered surface area for them, while also getting them to utilize more of the height of the tank.

 

I typically create very open rockwork with more up and across than on the bottom of the tank, with archways, overhangs, and bridges. I need that second level to somehow have a way to hold in sand deep enough that it won't blow away.

Ah, so you basically want to create a raised shelf that holds sand? And you want it to look natural? Do you want/need it to run the full length of your tank? If not, can you take some shelf rock and border it with some rubble that you epoxy in place (or even pond-foam in place with some sand added to give it some more natural texture)? Then set the assembly on a few rocks acting as pillars?

[Jon Lazar]

What makes you think the dartfish will swim above the elevated loft, instead of swimming exactly where they do now?

[treesprite]

Ah, so you basically want to create a raised shelf that holds sand? And you want it to look natural? Do you want/need it to run the full length of your tank? If not, can you take some shelf rock and border it with some rubble that you epoxy in place (or even pond-foam in place with some sand added to give it some more natural texture)? Then set the assembly on a few rocks acting as pillars?

That's what I'm thinking, I'm just afraid it won't work or will look bad if I don't have any outside tips on doing it.

 

I think it would be best to have two sections like that. I'm planning on a couple of dartfish schools.

 

The tank is drilled for closed loop, so unless I decide not to use the CL, I can't block that area. I'm wondering if I should skip the closed loop having all those slow dartfish... question for the dartfish thread.

[treesprite]

I think I should find a pile of dry rock to play with. Is there anyplace that will let me just toy around with some pieces of it without actually buying anything?

 

Is there something that is light that could be molded then just weighted or glues down?

 

Could I use my heat gun on some big pvc to make something? (Who is it that made artificial rock with PVC and a heat gun?)

Edited November 3, 2016 by treesprite

[Origami]

That was Paul B. He posted years ago about twisting PVC pipe under heat, scuffing it and wrapping it in (fiberglass?) window screen, and then coating the mish-mash with a concrete coating. He made some interesting shapes that way.

 

Remember that PVC gives off toxic fumes when heated like that .

 

Sent from my LG-V510 using Tapatalk

[Bruleyii]

Ironically here's an article just posted to r2r about making artificial live rock. 

[Origami]

Ironically here's an article just posted to r2r about making artificial live rock. 

You can also find a lot on the topic (including techniques) at garf.org. I think that they originated the aragocrete movement probably 15-20 years ago. One important thing about using concrete is that you have to let it cure underwater for about 30 days to let the pH impact stabilize.

[treesprite]

I was thinking pvc because it is lighter weight - I don't want to deal with concrete if I can avoid it.

 

I have used the heat gun with pvc before, and, just to see if I could do it, experimented making pvc-only hang-on overflows using pipe which I bent into U shape with a heat gun (have to fill the pvc with sand so it doesn't collapse).

 

I know, pvc is toxic when heated. I am wondering if the sand used for it becomes toxic and un-usable (I threw away the sand I used in the pipes).

Edited November 3, 2016 by treesprite

[Origami]

Here's Paul's old thread (from 2011) that I was remembering.

[treesprite]

Here's Paul's old thread (from 2011) that I was remembering.

Awesome, thanks for digging that up!

[WilRams]

I saw a build thread on R2R that had a sand bed up in the rocks that he called a lagoon. I tried last night to find it last night with no luck. If I come across it ill post the link.