I don't know what I'm doing

[treesprite]

I have to build a stand and I have figure out what to do with the tank and plumbing. Over the past several months, I've made dozens of written out plans, written down measurements, diagramed plumbing configurations, gone in the hardware store to inspire myself, searched the internet over and over for different stand plans hoping to find a magic shortcut when I know there really aren't any that wouldn't result in disaster. The tank already has 6 holes in it, but I keep getting hung up trying to settle on what to do with them; I want to make a full length overflow which I could do if I use the upper 2 returns for drain holes (there is only 1 drain hole, a 1.5 all the way up in a corner; it's asking for a flood to not have a second, especially with that one up so high... not sure why anyone would even risk drilling that high, so I'm guessing it was done by the factory (if Oceanic does that). I was going to use the piece of glass from my old 75 overflow for the 120, but it's too messy, so I would have to get glass cut. But that was very noisy, so I need to use different dimensions and have to figure out which would be least noisy.

 

I put all that in one sloppy jumbled paragraph because, it demonstrates how all of it is in my head, back and forth and indecisive.

 

I want to figure out the fastest, not expensive but not risky-cheap, efficient, least noisy way of doing the stand and the overflow and all that nonsense.

 

I only know that I want to use the 3 closed loop holes in the center of the back for a closed loop. Previous owner plugged them and their is calcification over the plugs, so I will probably have to replace the bulkheads themselves. However, then I get into the whole pump thing, which adds a whole other conundrum to having two pumps and how all this affects the overflow and returns. Aarg!

[treesprite]

Maybe someone could come look at the tank with me and help me figure out what to do with it.

[Origami]

How about some pictures, Forrest?

[madweazl]

Do you mind having the bulk of the overflow outside the tank (pushing it further from the wall)? Appearance wise, I dont think you can beat the "low profile overflows" you can find from various vendors and ebay. The internal box takes up very little volume and in the case of the one I have, has worked really well. Of course, this would probably require even more holes. Where are the current holes located (I'm guessing it was a closed loop at some point)?

[AlanM]

Closed loop holes and plumbing have no affect on the drains and return. It's a closed loop, so you only have to worry about leaks. And you need a sealed pump that can run externally, of course.

 

Are the other three holes a drain and two returns?

 

If I was you I might drill a minimum number of new holes to get one of the new synergy reef overflows in to the tank. Super easy plumbing on them, and they are way cheaper than they used to be when they were hand made out of acrylic. Or maybe one of the cool in and out overflows that Julian was showing at MACNA. They were Italian. Don't remember the exact name, but I think they do both quietly in a single hole.

[AlanM]

Sorry, just looked them up they use two holes next to each other.

[treesprite]

There are 3 holes in the middle for the closed loop (one exit and two inputs). There is a hole in the upper left corner and a hole in the upper right corner, There is a bigger hole way up in the upper left corner. I want to do the CL. I was thinking I could use those 2 corner returns for drains, then just put returns over the back top of the tank.

 

I know the holes for CL have nothing to do with the others, but I need to deal with a second pump.

 

I had plans that meant drilling more holes, but I don't want to deal with it.

Edited October 9, 2016 by treesprite

[treesprite]

Here's picture of the back of the tank (paint is now scraped off, which was already peeling off on its own, will re-paint it). It's hard to see the 1.5" hole, way up in the corner.

 

 

I am thinking about making a C2C overflow, using the upper sump return holes as passage into an external box drilled through the bottom with BA plumbing (wish I had the guts to make a cut out instead of using the holes). The returns would just go over the back and make flow in top of tank where they won't cause a bunch of back siphon in an outage. I would have the CL returns lower for flow lower in the tank.

 

I'm worried about suction into the CL drain, and also, would like more CL return options, so I am wondering, how would it be if I used all 3 CL holes for drains (combined into one pipe to the pump), then put the CL returns over the back of the tank? I would get a bigger pump to accommodate such a setup.

 

If I do that with the CL, I wouldn't want I would need to run pipes down the back inside the tank, but with the tank back painted black, I could use black pvc or paint.

 

If I do put CL return pipes over and down the back, I could put the return pipes down through the bottom of the overflow (properly sealed water tight of course), that way the upper parts could be hidden, and I could put them in better locations than down the sides next to ends of the OF where they will not be as easy to hide.

 

Actually, if I were to put pipes through the OF it would have to be wider, in which case it would make more sense to just put my sump drains directly in there and skip the external box. I was wanting a thinner OF.

Edited April 4, 2017 by treesprite

[Jon Lazar]

Forrest, I think the two upper/center holes are too low for a coast to coast.  It looks like the C2C would have to be excessively tall to encompass the bulkheads.

 

Also, what size are the three lower bulkheads?  If they're only one inch, I think that's smaller than ideal for a closed loop.

 

I would drill new holes for a low-profile internal/external overflow, and plug all six original holes with bulkheads.  Run your return plumbing over the back of the tank.  This approach is simple and provides an excellent balance between form and function.

 

If you're adamant about having a coast to coast overflow, then contact one of the popular EBay manufacturers and have one custom made oversize. The external box doesn't have to be oversize. 

[AlanM]

I'm not understanding everything you propose with the closed loop holes, but in my opinion they should not be used for anything other than parts of a closed loop system.  With an emphasis on "closed" in that system.  That means if they're all exits, they should all go directly to the input of a pump volute and then the outlet of that pump volute should go directly into your tank.  Otherwise you'll drain the entire tank when the power shuts off.  I'm sure you already know that, but I wasn't sure from what you wrote.

 

I think you were going to use all 3 as outputs from the tank and inputs to the pump in order to avoid too much suction by just using one and then bring the returns for the closed loop over the top?  If that's the case, I don't think you are really benefiting from having a closed loop, which is that you get flow happening down in the lower regions of the tank.  I'd go ahead and use them as one out and two ins and put a flat strainer on the suction and just don't push a huge amount of flow through them.  Hide em behind the rocks and forget about them.  

 

Or just put bulkheads and plugs in all of them and forget about them.  Then use those two holes up at the top for a coast to coast herbie style internal box or an inner/outer (which will cost you more cash) with returns coming up over the back.

[treesprite]

Actually at the moment, it looks like this tank may not get set up, and the contents of what I have might need a home asap.

[treesprite]

The bottom of the hole is 7" from the top of the tank, which is the same as my old 75g in which I had a glass C2C. That C2C was only 1.5" from the tank wall, and it was a real PITA being that narrow, so I don't want one that narrow again.

[treesprite]

Am I really going to have to drill this tank? I feel like it's either that, or get rid of it because it is stressing me out. The glass is so thick and I am still in PT for a neck/back injury which will hurt like H doing all that time with a drill (I drilled a hole for 3/4" a few weeks ago in a 20H and just doing that was painful). I'm not afraid to drill, it's just such a big, time-consuming, and painful task

 

If I were to drill it, how and where and what size holes for what?

 

I'm pretty much determined to have a closed loop and not waste the holes. Maybe I could use the two lower holes for CL drains, plug just the center one (saying that because I can't think of a good use for it right now), drill some (4?) 3/4" holes low down (afraid to drill bigger ones in a tank already full of holes) and use those for CL returns plus use the two upper holes also for CL returns (I think they were meant to be sump returns, but they are low enough for CL returns and that depth actually has had me thinking they would back siphon too much into the sump when power goes out if used as sump returns... that's partly why  I wasn't minding using them as sump drains). I'm thinking if I did it, I could use two separate CL pumps, one for each side and put them on a timer (I was looking at some examples of people doing the dual pumps with timer thing rather than using a SCWD or OM, otherwise I'd probably not have thought of it).

 

If I went to all that complication, there would remain the question of the overflow. There is only still that one 1.5" corner hole. What I would like to know, though, is if flow to/from sump really has to be high volume if there is a CL for flow in the tank? Is it a matter mostly of oxygen exchange to have a high sump flow rate when in fact the skimmer and a fuge need far lower flow? The only place I could drill for drain holes is top of back in the center between those upper return holes (but higher than those of course). It would make me have some dinky OF that would do almost nothing for surface skimming.

 

Something I saw on the internet was a tank that had only CL holes, but the sump was fed by a pipe split off from a CL pump, and the was a sump return pump with the return pipe over the back. That tank example was only 29g.

Edited April 8, 2017 by treesprite

[treesprite]

I am attaching  a picture that has the paint scraped off the tank, so the holes are more visible (plus I stuck the bulkhead back in the 1.5" hole, because it was harder to see as a bare hole).

 

Please feel free to use your imagination and tell me how you would do this tank, with the stipulation that there will be a closed loop.

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by treesprite

[treesprite]

Well, if I decide I'm up to drilling a lot of 3/4" holes, maybe I could do this instead of what I described (see attached picture). It would be going back to the idea of using the sump returns as drains (that higher up 1.5" corner hole would be the emergency drain hole). I would possibly use 2 pumps for the CL (one for each side) and alternate on a timer (instead of 1 pump w/scwd) 

.

 

I feel like this arrangement would be better than anything else I tried to think up, but the drilling is such a huge PITA.

Edited April 8, 2017 by treesprite