treesprite May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 Please answer the poll question and give any comments or explanations in a reply. I used to panic when I saw spots on my fish, then damage their immunity by chasing them around the tank to catch them, and subject them to chemical treatments and freshwater baths, all stressors that lead to increased inability to fight off infection. Now I leave them in the tank and they get better (though I have not had a fish with spots for at least a couple of years). I think some fish build an immunity to it, if the keeper gives them a chance to fight it off on their own without whatever stressors are in the tank to lower immunity. Best thing to do is prevent and eliminate sources of stress so the fish can fight the infection on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surf&turf May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 I do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallreef May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 I prefer to leave them in... I have only ever had the original fish that showed signs of ich actually die, if even then, so I figure the other fish that are in are healthy enough to fight off the parasites... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfishgirl May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 With the exception of my tang who has black ich, with white ich, I leave the fish in the tank. I feel leaving them in and helping them fight it, I use focus and Metroconizole(sp?) to help fight it, it builds up their defense against another out break if it were to occur. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmerek2 May 4, 2015 Share May 4, 2015 (edited) The outbreak is due to stress and or poor water parameters or tangs shoved in smaller tanks than what live aquaria reccomends. Usually that stuff can't be fixed leaving them in the tank. So they have to be treated. The experienced reefers with aged tanks and excellent water quality may be able to get away with leaving them in. I pull the sick fish only. Put them back in and all is good second attempt. The right thing to do though is pulling all the fish with profalactic treatment for required time Edited May 4, 2015 by gmerek2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpu933k May 4, 2015 Share May 4, 2015 I'm doing tank transfer and quarantining everything wet going into the DT. I'd rather not have a ticking time bomb sitting in the DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite May 4, 2015 Author Share May 4, 2015 I'm doing tank transfer and quarantining everything wet going into the DT. I'd rather not have a ticking time bomb sitting in the DT. Really the best prevention is QTing new fish. But as long as there are things from the ocean in a reef tank, there are going to be parasites no matter what you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul b May 4, 2015 Share May 4, 2015 Everything stays in my tank. No problem if you keep your fish healthy and properly fed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy May 4, 2015 Share May 4, 2015 Really the best prevention is QTing new fish. But as long as there are things from the ocean in a reef tank, there are going to be parasites no matter what you do.that is not true. if one is interested in quarantining and/or treating all additions, where applicable, (anything wet basically) they can avoid parasites in their system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite May 4, 2015 Author Share May 4, 2015 that is not true. if one is interested in quarantining and/or treating all additions, where applicable, (anything wet basically) they can avoid parasites in their system. I used to believe this too, but then came to the conclusion that it was an illogical assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy May 4, 2015 Share May 4, 2015 I used to believe this too, but then came to the conclusion that it was an illogical assumption.it's fact and scientifically proven. What do you find illogical about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite May 4, 2015 Author Share May 4, 2015 it's fact and scientifically proven. What do you find illogical about it? But they didn't test for everything, and it doesn't account for mutations. I believe individual fish that are captive bred can be free of stuff, and dry rock rather than liverock. But how can a reef tank be "seeded" for microfauna and other things desirable in a reef tank, without putting something live from the ocean in the tank? I think it in a non-hobbyist environment it can be done, but as far as hobbyists go (which is what we are talking about, not lab-type facilities), there is no way to have a great reef tank using strictly dry rock, strictly captive bred fish, and strictly captive propagated corals. A hobbyist would never be able to purchase corals and fish from a LFS or other hobbyists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S May 4, 2015 Share May 4, 2015 it's fact and scientifically proven. What do you find illogical about it? Are you suggesting that - if I have a perfectly QTed, healthy, and parasite-free Powder Blue Tang -- And I put him into my 40g breeder... and he is happy for 1 year... and I then stress the crap out of him... move him from tank to tank... strobe lights on the tank... and Justin Beiber playing 24/7... there is no chance he'll get ich? I was under the belief that it would develop under those circumstances. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy May 4, 2015 Share May 4, 2015 But they didn't test for everything, and it doesn't account for mutations. I believe individual fish that are captive bred can be free of stuff, and dry rock rather than liverock. But how can a reef tank be "seeded" for microfauna and other things desirable in a reef tank, without putting something live from the ocean in the tank? I think it in a non-hobbyist environment it can be done, but as far as hobbyists go (which is what we are talking about, not lab-type facilities), there is no way to have a great reef tank using strictly dry rock, strictly captive bred fish, and strictly captive propagated corals. A hobbyist would never be able to purchase corals and fish from a LFS or other hobbyists.you can start the cycle with a bacteria in a bottle product of your choosing. we certainly are learning and studying new information each day. we are still learning things about even some of the more known parasites. corals and fish would be quarantined to prevent parasites from entering the system. I agree it's not popular but it is becoming more common as folks deal with the adverse affects and put new methodologies and practices in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy May 4, 2015 Share May 4, 2015 Are you suggesting that - if I have a perfectly QTed, healthy, and parasite-free Powder Blue Tang -- And I put him into my 40g breeder... and he is happy for 1 year... and I then stress the crap out of him... move him from tank to tank... strobe lights on the tank... and Justin Beiber playing 24/7... there is no chance he'll get ich? I was under the belief that it would develop under those circumstances. No?if a fish is parasite-free and put into a system that is maintained parasite-free the fish cannot obtain something it has not been exposed to. the bieber 24/7 would likely have it develop some adverse symptoms but it would remain parasite-free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S May 4, 2015 Share May 4, 2015 very interesting. i didn't know that. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite May 4, 2015 Author Share May 4, 2015 It's an interesting debate. I would like to know who here has a tank that has never had anything wild caught (including liverock or livesand) in it. Things that can't be seen, heard, felt, smelled, or in some other way sensed, can't be scientifically proven to not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmerek2 May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 marine ick has a part of their life cycle where it is free swimming correct? Is it possible that one of these free swimmers latch onto our frags or can make it into our water with a single drop of water from an infected tank? Probably not likely for those that dip but I think it's possible for those that add a piece of live rock, frags, inverts from infected tanks or fish stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 in the everyday aquarium person world, 99% of them do not have a QT or hospital tank. They make do with what they have. In clean tanks, the fish usually survive and in dirty tanks, they usually don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite May 5, 2015 Author Share May 5, 2015 in the everyday aquarium person world, 99% of them do not have a QT or hospital tank. They make do with what they have. In clean tanks, the fish usually survive and in dirty tanks, they usually don't. I'm guessing most of that 99% don't belong to education groups like ours. But I still don't get it, because It is so easy to just toss up a QT tank any time needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmerek2 May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 I'm guessing most of that 99% don't belong to education groups like ours. But I still don't get it, because It is so easy to just toss up a QT tank any time needed. I'll be devils advocate here since I agree as long as they are done properly. However I believe QT kills a lot of fish. How? They are thrown together quickly in panic, not cycled or ran properly and people don't realize meds can kill of some of this good denitrifying bacteria. There is not as much surface area for denitrifying bacteria, they are smaller than DT and rarely do I see them properly cycled. So ammonia is #1 killer in QT tanks. Not near as natural of an environment so they stress and barely eat. Just save the expense and buy from ERC. Even if the tank is already infected at least the fish is parasite free for the most stressful part (the first few days) and if they do contract the disease by the time it's full blown their immune is able to fight it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 I'm guessing most of that 99% don't belong to education groups like ours. But I still don't get it, because It is so easy to just toss up a QT tank any time needed. you're assuming most people have the equipment, room, or the time to do this. It's just not feasible in the real world. FWIW, I don't have a QT set up either. If my fish get ick, I let them ride it out. That said, I usually get QT'd fish from the QT system at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nextlevel808 May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 I leave them in. I didn't read everyone else's post but first off in my opinion if a fish in your DT has ich they are already reproducing and it's already to late. Unless your will to remove ALL your fish for 6-12 months for the cycle to stop then add them back in it is better to let it take its corse. I have had it twice in my reef tank once few weeks ago when I changed tanks and couple times in my fish only. It's more of a immune thing and stress, water quality, and some other things are the factors but I have found if you can figure out what's causing it and correct that y fish have got better. In my personal experience I tried a qt tank and treating them but actually found that to be just as stressful on the fish and lost it anyways I have also lost them due to bad water quality and those crappy api test kits telling me my water was fine when it really wasn't fixed the problem stopped losing fish. I usually try to feed little more then normal and have found adding something that helps with slim coat has helped me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridetheducati May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 Scenario: Main display is stocked with mature fish valued at $20,000. A new addition is scheduled to arrive from Live Aquaria, Blue Zoo, or insert your favorite vendor. Do you quarantine the new additions or add directly to the main display? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 In that scenario I would QT that new fish! Not smart to add an unknown to an established system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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